Shadowbringers RDM Wishlist

[Kabooa]

The only valid thing is Jolt II and Impact sharing, everything else isn't really necessary. PvP type combos are not coming to PvE, as confirmed by Yoshi, and players like to have Corps-a-Corps and Displacement seperate as it depends on the situation on when to use them. RDM doesn't have hotbar issues so not a big deal to change so much.

People change their minds.

[Kolsykol]

Jolt turns into Impact while under Impactful.

Riposte > Zorro > Redoublement as you use each skill (Sort of like how PvP combo's work for melee jobs)

Verthunder/Veraero > Verflare/Verholy after doing the enhanced melee combo.

Corps-a-Corps > Displacement after use.

That's 6 skills taken out with little to no impact on the job.

Scrap Tether for a 7th skill.

Roll Diversion into Embolden. For another skill removed.

Maybe Lucid Dreaming into Manafication? Though this change would have some more notable effects on gameplay.

But that's up to 9 buttons you've saved on RDM.

I think that stuff like Corps-a-Corps and Displacement should be separate tho, because they do have some situational utility.

I am not saying that stuff like that should be combined, but Jolt 2 and Impact have no separate situational utility.
So I see no reason as to why they shouldn't be combined.

[Archwizard]

Alright, just did a deep scan of the VoD from the Live Letter to catch some glimpses of spell descriptions, bear in mind they specifically said all damage numbers are yet to be adjusted so I'm trying to measure relatively to understand the intent:

• New Enchanted melee skill, "Reprise": not part of any combo, Enchanting consumes 10 Mana of either type, but the Enchanted version appears to be a ranged attack; unknown at this time what other effects enchanting has, if any
• New melee CD "Engagement" shares a recast timer with Displacement, doesn't backstep but deals about 25% less damage; note that Corps-a-corps and Displacement still deal damage and otherwise appear unchanged
• Scatter appears to be done away with, Impact is now a longcast AoE skill instead that generates 3(?) mana of each type and no longer requires Impactful
• Two new shortcast AoE skills added, confusingly ALSO named Veraero and Verthunder (no name iterations like "II" or anything); each generates 7 mana of their respective types, don't seem to have any further effects (ie no Stone/Fire procs) but appear to be available at fairly low levels like Scatter was (Note that this new "Veraero"'s tooltip claims it does unaspected damage, so call it a WIP)
• Manafication appears to be some kind of 10 second buff in addition to its ability to double your Mana, although he never moused over it so I couldn't see the buff's effects
• The single-target Veraero and Verthunder now turn into Verholy and Verflare, respectively, upon completing a melee combo
• Finishing the combo and casting Verholy turned Jolt II into a new spell called "Scorch", an instant attack ("Verfoul" as it were) which seems to generate 7 mana of each type; Verholy crit for ~40k while Scorch did a standard hit for about 32k, so I would assume Scorch hits harder base? Until proven otherwise I will also assume Verflare procs it too.
• Verraise still appears to consume 24% of MP, though he didn't mouseover so I can't say if there's any type of CD
• Enchanted Moulinet cost reduced to 20 Mana of each type, but the new Impact appears to hit a bit harder than it
• Mana Shift's gone; casters only have 4 role actions: Addle, Lucid Dreaming, Swiftcast and Surecast
  EDIT: Lucid Dreaming has had its CD halved, while Surecast's was quadrupled

So... good news is our AoE changed at least.

[Kleeya]

[*]Mana Shift's gone; casters only have 4 role actions: Addle, Lucid Dreaming, Swiftcast and Surecast

And here i was thinking that with tank changes i will not rip aggro from half of the tanks anymore... I have a foreboding that it will pose some problems to not have diversion instead of addle XD

Or is there a new enmity generation reduction skill ?

[Zyneste]

And here i was thinking that with tank changes i will not rip aggro from half of the tanks anymore... I have a foreboding that it will pose some problems to not have diversion instead of addle XD

Or is there a new enmity generation reduction skill ?

Tanks still have free emnity stance, shirk and lucid dreaming is on a 60 second cool down.

Red mage is still a hot mess comparative to some of the other classes. It feels like they tried to just redo SB RDM instead of expanding it. Its feels like a worse version of its level 70 self.

[Archwizard]

Continuing from this, some disappointments, hopes and concerns I have:

• First: I'm actually pretty excited for how our AoE rotation will work now, since it's basically the total inverse of our single-target.
• ... that being said, doesn't that mean our AoE rotation slows down a little once do we gain Impact? Hoping that changes.
• Engagement's heart is in the right place, but costing us DPS to use just makes smaller arenas feel like a targeted damage penalty towards us.
• Reprise is an interesting idea, but unless it gives us more than "Scathe, at a price" it also will be avoided as often as we can help it. It honestly seems very odd that two of our five advancements are spent on "optimally, you'll never use this because you have better skills for all other intents and purposes" niche skills -- and I'm concerned the other two besides Scorch will just be minor traits that don't change our gameplay at all.
• Really hoping Scorch isn't an AoE skill. Doing an entire single-target melee combo to unlock an AoE spell when we have a perfectly good AoE melee attack that could never do so, would be jarring.
• From an aesthetic standpoint: I don't mind moving Impact, but why'd they give us another Verthunder and Veraero when we have room for Verwater and Verblizzard? I mean, the visual effects look good but the names and technical effects are very, very confusing.
• No word whatsoever on what happens to Verraise since it still costs just as much, which I would think would be all over Yoshi P's mind presenting us. Gonna call the leaks about us fake until we hear otherwise.
• ... which means our MP concerns are still exactly the same as before, just without Mana Shift eating us.

[SaberMaxwell]

Hello everyone, OP's friend posting on behalf of OP.

EDIT: OP said to say thank you all for making this such a huge thread!

[*]Engagement's heart is in the right place, but costing us DPS to use just makes smaller arenas feel like a targeted damage penalty towards us.

This is totally fair, but it's worth point out that small arenas are already targeted against us. An ability like Engagement reduces the effect of that targeted reduction by a reasonable amount. It was a good compromise IMO that gives us a risk v reward decision to make: is the risk of missing aoe heals / hitting a wall worth the extra 50 potency? Etc.

[*]Reprise is an interesting idea, but unless it gives us more than "Scathe, at a price" it also will be avoided as often as we can help it. It honestly seems very odd that two of our five advancements are spent on "optimally, you'll never use this because you have better skills for all other intents and purposes" niche skills -- and I'm concerned the other two besides Scorch will just be minor traits that don't change our gameplay at all.

I can see where you're coming from here. Personally I see Reprise as both "Scathe at a price" and "I won't be able to get back to melee due to mechanics anytime soon, but I don't want to overcap mana." It's a net to catch mistakes I think. Who knows, maybe it could also function as a "delay the melee burst for when TA is up." type deal as well.

[*]Really hoping Scorch isn't an AoE skill. Doing an entire single-target melee combo to unlock an AoE spell when we have a perfectly good AoE melee attack that could never do so, would be jarring.

Up until Shadowbringers, RDM was the only mage whose finisher wasn't AoE. Foul and Akh Morn/Deathflare were both AoE finishers that hit hard. I wouldn't mind Scorch being AoE I think, but I honestly am surprised they're making our spike damage even spikier.

[*]From an aesthetic standpoint: I don't mind moving Impact, but why'd they give us another Verthunder and Veraero when we have room for Verwater and Verblizzard? I mean, the visual effects look good but the names and technical effects are very, very confusing.

I admit I was also confused by the new effects; when I first saw them I thought they were Verthunder 2 and Veraero 2 and both would be single-target upgrades. Had to rewatch to catch that they're AoE. I think Verwater and Verblizzard would have been better names too. I'm also of team "Impact should be called Roseflare." But yeah, I'm glad that Impact has its own identity now beyond "Jolt 2 but better unless you try casting it too late."

[*]No word whatsoever on what happens to Verraise since it still costs just as much, which I would think would be all over Yoshi P's mind presenting us. Gonna call the leaks about us fake until we hear otherwise.

This disappointed me the most. I was hoping they would make Verraise a 60s CD with no cost: it would have been a great compromise! RDM's raises would still have a unique power (insta and free) but also be much more easily controlled as far as prog goes (no spammability).

[*]... which means our MP concerns are still exactly the same as before, just without Mana Shift eating us.[/list]

We'll have to see how the actual numbers turn out, but Lucid's CD was 60 seconds and I don't think Ranged DPS lost their mana song abilities. Even just with Lucid being 60s cooldown as far as the showcase we got had, we should be fine unless we try to be the Human Healer LB3.

[Archwizard]

This is totally fair, but it's worth point out that small arenas are already targeted against us. An ability like Engagement reduces the effect of that targeted reduction by a reasonable amount. It was a good compromise IMO that gives us a risk v reward decision to make: is the risk of missing aoe heals / hitting a wall worth the extra 50 potency? Etc.

Maybe. I still would rather have seen the removal of all potency from the movement skills so they'd become optional, or at the very worst making Engage/Displace closer in damage with Displace adding some other bonus to be tactically superior in most combat, like enmity reduction. Even on encounters with small arenas, there often could be room to Displace based on the tank's positioning of the boss, meaning the argument could be made it's not your safety vs damage but someone else's competence determining your damage.

We'll have to see how the actual numbers turn out, but Lucid's CD was 60 seconds and I don't think Ranged DPS lost their mana song abilities. Even just with Lucid being 60s cooldown as far as the showcase we got had, we should be fine unless we try to be the Human Healer LB3.

Hmm. Well, that does change things now... assuming the standardization of MP doesn't also come with a revision to the values of Refresh effects, at any rate.

I still have to wonder what Manafication's buff does now, though. Could be anything from burst window boosting (on the same CD as Embolden...) to MP recovery to bonus mitigation. Who knows, but it is... curious.

So Displacement got a safety net?

She said something like “before when you jumped back and fell and you might die, but now you do a little flip and avoid that.”

She may have been referring to Engagement, since the animation for it is also a little flip iirc. Seems like it would defeat the point to adjust how far you flip with Displacement and then give us a skill designed to keep us from using Displacement in the first place.

[Seraphor]

So Displacement got a safety net?

She said something like “before when you jumped back and fell and you might die, but now you do a little flip and avoid that.”

[SaberMaxwell]

So Displacement got a safety net?

She said something like “before when you jumped back and fell and you might die, but now you do a little flip and avoid that.”

A new ability called "Engagement."

It shares a recast with Displacement, but does 50 less potency. Less risk but less reward; still better than leaving the cooldown on the table though.

Maybe. I still would rather have seen the removal of all potency from the movement skills so they'd become optional, or at the very worst making Engage/Displace closer in damage with Displace adding some other bonus to be tactically superior in most combat, like enmity reduction. Even on encounters with small arenas, there often could be room to Displace based on the tank's positioning of the boss, meaning the argument could be made it's not your safety vs damage but someone else's competence determining your damage.

Again, fair. A big part of me agrees with you here as well; I want to be able to conserve movement abilities for, well...movement. As far as things go, though, Engagement can be seen as a 150 potency buff, because before we got 0 potency entirely. Also worth mentioning that current displacement does 130 potency, so even just using Engagement is a straight buff from the Displace we have now.

I choose to look at it as a silver lining. That little bit of derring-do is all it really takes to make the use of either skill a symbol of player expression. Sure, there could have been other buffs, but the simple risk of distance for the reward of 50 extra potency is imo all it needs for now. Also yes, you have a point that in some arenas tank placement of the boss gives you room to displace; honestly that's a level of teamwork I also value, but that is personal preference on my part. I enjoy high-level high-stakes teamwork, and this can be an element of that.

Hmm. Well, that does change things now... assuming the standardization of MP doesn't also come with a revision to the values of Refresh effects, at any rate.

I still have to wonder what Manafication's buff does now, though. Could be anything from burst window boosting (on the same CD as Embolden...) to MP recovery to bonus mitigation. Who knows, but it is... curious.

It is curious, and kind of exciting to look forward to. According to the tooltip it also still has a 21 second duration so it looks like RDM can have Lucid rolling with nearly 50% uptime. On top of that the weaponskills look like they have no cost at all now.