Shadowbringers RDM Wishlist

[Archwizard]

-snip-

A promising start -- I like the idea of using the 'stances' to encourage alternating Verflare/Verholy, assuming they aren't affected themselves -- although I have concerns.

• Removing the Mana gain of Verflare/Verholy effectively cancels out the cost-reduction of the melee combo at or above level 68 (it leaves us at 1 Mana deficit even, although that's a negligible amount). Further, even in the best case scenario the stances would have very little effect on the ongoing rotation, as keeping yourself within the 30 Mana disparity (when 2 spells of the same type are 20 Mana) would mean a maximum of 3 extra spells of either element (without clipping the mana cap) receiving the bonus, ignoring the random access to Verstone/Verfire which could make this more difficult to attain. I'm not saying it's a bad idea -- it's definitely workable -- but I'm on the fence about it.
• Your suggestion for a more "chaotic" generation of B/W Mana would be non-intuitive; randomly losing mana wouldn't feel good, as it would seem like being penalized for no reason, increase the effective cost of the melee rotation, and remove one's control over the rotation; imagine beginning your melee rotation only to randomly lose mana and be put under the threshold for Enchanted Redoublement, or randomly gaining mana and switching which of your Verfinishers you're intended to use. Even in a proc-heavy system, the player is afforded some degree of control.

-snip-

You're correct that we don't have to worry about DoT maintenance. However, I would argue this is because we already have other types of similar maintenance, such as our procs; optimal play demands we don't let any of our procs run out or be overwritten (in much the same manner as DoT upkeep, only arguably more punishing for us to fail in this regard), and I cannot tell you how many times I've come very close with losing Impact due to RNG strings with Verfire/Verstone, or gone into a melee combo with both Verfire/Verstone active. Even a suggestion such as Nezia's would merely replace DoT maintenance with buff maintenance, which at the end of the day is only a matter of who the status effect is applied to.

Further, adding a DoT to our melee combo/spell finisher would not feel rewarding the player, as unless it was an excessively long duration (~60 sec minimum, to encourage alternating Verfinishers), it would alter next to nothing about the rotation, on top of having extreme difficulty maintaining a 90%+ uptime. It would just be damage in DoT form for the sake of having a DoT -- and as I've said before, I would be open to accepting a DoT if its upkeep had some affect on our rotation, not merely for the DoT's own sake.

And finally: There are avenues to create new playstyles, even with DoTs, rather than simply "borrowing from other jobs". One area in which RDM is unique is the dichotomy of B/W spells, which could be taken to many logical extremes even with a DoT (for instance, having us juggle a DoT of each type, or one DoT that alternately empowers spells). Have a little faith.

I want them to flesh out "dead-ends" for every job.

I'm a fan of several of these suggestions, particularly pairing a longcast AoE with Scatter; given the repeating complaint that AoE affects a particularly small area of our damage, however, I would also suggest that such a longcast have a use in single-target as well. (Not difficult to execute, skills like Foul already exist in both.)
Worth noting that we already have a "huge AoE oGCD" in Contre Sixte.
I hadn't even considered using Acceleration to restore MP. A singularly interesting suggestion, especially as it's a relatively short/readily available cooldown.

As for Verraise... I'm not against limiting it, merely on the fence about how to limit it, particularly given that right now RDM's primary utility is in its ability to offer instant Verraises (at particularly cost to the caster). The manner in which you suggest to limit it actually puts SMN ahead of us in that regard, as a recast restriction of 60 sec even with Dualcast would be no different from SMN's ability to Swiftcast Resurrect, just with the cooldown displaced onto the other skill.

[Ariel_Valmont]

I’ve always felt that our procs were more of a priority system, if I get in a spree with ver fire/stone and lose impact it doesn’t really bother me because the former are the better spells to be casting anyway.

Having an action for a dot, isn’t going to be rewarding either. It would just unnecessarily complicate the rotation. MNK is a fine example of how a job can pretty much still have the same rotation over several expansions and still be fleshed out. (I’m aware it has a dot, it’s been there since the beginning). I only bring up MNK because it is the only other job that seems to have a very smooth fluid play style like RDM.

From the way you talked earlier the reason you seemed to want a dot was to continue damaging the opponent while you are having to move/stop casting. Putting it as a bonus on the end of the melee combo/finisher spell would accomplish this and keep the fluidity of the job.

One thing I would like to see is some sort of interupt/stun. Tie it to a oGCD damage action if needed so it has a dual use.

I’m expecting we will be getting something to improve our AOE experience as that is the most bland part of our kit.

I really think at this point they should be moving away from new actions and usin traits to improve the gameplay experience. That’s not to say we shouldn’t get any new actions. I just think using traits is the better way to keep from having to purge to keep button bloat down.

[Ariel_Valmont]

I think you could make Scatter more fun to spam is that each proc of enhanced scatter also reduced the recast time. Let those enhanced scatter chains just come out the gate like an endless barrage of fireworks.

I really like this idea!

[Jonnycbad]

I want them to flesh out "dead-ends" for every job. In RDM's case, Enhanced Moulinet feels like a dead-end. It's good damage when you do 3-5x of them, but it feels primitive and doesn't culminate in anything (opposed to BLM who can triple flare, then Foul and SMN which can Bane+Painflare+Deathflare+Enkindle Bahamut).

Realistically, I can see them adding:
-long-cast AoE spell or a spell to pair with Scatter.
-trait that while under Embolden, White/Black Mana Consumption through "Enhanced" Weapon Skills is decreased by 50% (allowing us to do 2x melee combos+finishers back to back)
-Huge AoE oGCD damage only usable at orabove 80/80 black/white mana, but doesn't consume any black/white mana.
-Trait that makes Acceleration restores 10% of your MP.

Most importantly but also the most controversial:
-Make it so Verraise does not share a recast timer with any other spell, and then make it a 30-60 second recast. They've already shown with BLU that they can create spells that do not share a recast (Peculiar Light, Off-guard). By making Verraise limited, they still have utility but it's no longer a ridiculous crutch, nor can it ever be a gigantic MP sink as it is now where we're raising 6x+ per fight. I think it's fair as a RDM that we would still be able to raise, but there should be a limit to it. This way, SMN can raise without a recast restriction, but it's still a slow 6s cast. RDM can raise instantly, but we are limited to once in 30-60 seconds. Sounds fair to me.

[Archwizard]

I mean, in the case where the concern is to "continue damaging the opponent while you are having to move/stop casting", the easy solution is the same as BLM and SMN get -- a spammable instant spell like Scathe or Ruin II/IV. "Verscathe" with a chance at a Dualcast proc oughta do it, especially with the calls for a Black Magic equivalent to Vercure.

My admittedly overbearing insistence on specifically a DoT was rather for the reasons of A) improving the weight of Spell Speed, given that it's one of the lowest stats for RDM and it's hard to avoid anyway, and B) iterating the rotation, particularly as an addition to our bland AoE (my #2 concern, behind our MP issues) and as a gateway to adding Water and Ice magic to the kit -- specifically what you call an "unnecessary complication," by contrast to... what, a necessary one?
If the devs' designs accomplish both without then by all means, good for them and good for us. I don't see a DoT as an interruption to the fluidity to the job; a shortcast spell could easily be swapped in for a Jolt II every, say, 30 sec, provided its returns were substantial enough to justify maintaining, and it would be no more "disruptive" to our rotation than any other swap we make with Jolt.

Because ultimately, as long as we're net-gaining Mana, the flow of the rotation is Shortcast-Dualcast-Shortcast-Dualcast. Next to impossible to "disrupt" since anything longer than 2 seconds will automatically be thrown on the Dualcast pile.

I agree on the stun front however, particularly as a hybrid melee job. I have previously suggested removing the damage from Corps-a-corps and Displacement (to be reattached elsewhere in the kit) and instead adding minor crowd control to each, including a Stun on the former and a Heavy on the latter. Corps-a-corps has a 40 sec CD, matching the role action stun available to other melee, making it an ideal place for such an addition.

As for button bloat, there are multiple solutions beyond simply purging existing abilities. An easy way I've been advocating for has been the merging of several buttons in the same manner as we see in PvP -- putting all three melee combo actions on one sequential action button; having Jolt II evolve into Impact when Impactful is active; having Verthunder/Veraero or Verfire/Verstone be replaced on the bar with Verflare/Verholy for the next action after a combo.
That right there is 5 action bar spaces opened without removing or impacting the functionality of a single existing ability.

[Ariel_Valmont]

If they were to merge jolt and impact it would need to come with the removal of the timer on impact otherwise you would get into situations where the timer is going to fall off before the cast finishes and wouldn’t have access to jolt.

I also don’t agree with merging the melee actions. Skipping right to 3 has its uses.

I do like your idea on crowd control but I think I would choose silence over heavy. Give us that stun though!

[Mansion]

If they were to merge jolt and impact it would need to come with the removal of the timer on impact otherwise you would get into situations where the timer is going to fall off before the cast finishes and wouldn’t have access to jolt.

No, it could work if you allow snapshotting on RDM. The only thing that comes to my mind is WHM Presence of Mind. If PoM falls while you are casting, your spell still benefits from PoM.
Same here, you could start casting Impact while Impactful falls, and it should not cancel your Impact cast.

I agree RDM has no problem with button bloat, but we might want to keep an eye on it regardless.
I don't get your "Skipping right to 3" ?

[Ariel_Valmont]

As it is now if impactful falls off it cancels the cast, so something would need to change for the merged button to be a benefit.

Forget the skip to 3 statement, I retract that one. I could accept the melee combo being merged.

[Jonnycbad]

The number of times I've accidentally casted Jolt II while sitting on an Impact proc is embarrassing. And even worse still is deciding if I should cancel the Jolt II midcast so I can dump my Impact proc and decide that's the route I will take about 80% into my Jolt II cast. Then after interrupting my Jolt II (deep into the cast) i start casting Impact and before it finishes casting Impactful wears off.

[Mansion]

The number of times I've accidentally casted Jolt II while sitting on an Impact proc is embarrassing. And even worse still is deciding if I should cancel the Jolt II midcast so I can dump my Impact proc and decide that's the route I will take about 80% into my Jolt II cast. Then after interrupting my Jolt II (deep into the cast) i start casting Impact and before it finishes casting Impactful wears off.

That's why Jolt is quite "far" in my hotbar. That way it's not really in muscle memory, and when I press it it's because I really had no other options available!