Shadowbringers RDM Wishlist

[Archwizard]

No DOT spells

I honestly don't understand all the knee-jerk reactions to the concept of any DoT spells whatsoever for RDM. I've seen it here, on Reddit, in-game discussions...

First of all, RDMs have a significantly lower stat weight for Spell Speed due to Dualcast. DoT ticks are affected by Spell Speed, which would bring the stat weight up.
Sure, if we had more options for gearing and the ability to pick-and-choose what secondary stats we had access to then this could be argued as a bad thing, but as it is you only have one or two pieces at any given stat level and they're made with all caster DPS in mind, so either way we're gonna end up with Spell Speed we're not really using.

Second, our rotation is arguably the most simplistic in the game, given that it's almost entirely predictable "replace X when Y procs" repetition that you could theoretically macro to half as many buttons. Considering the only complaint I've actually managed to drag out of someone about DoT spells is simply that they "don't like maintaining them" -- itself a highly biased assessment, where entire threads are full of counter-suggestions specifically for them -- we could stand to fit in an extra timer to shake it up.
Bearing in mind, no matter what, the next expansion is going to happen and within the next 5 abilities we get, something will change the rotation as we know it (based on both history and a game company's general need to add more content to maintain interest), so "why do we need to shake it up, I like things as they are" is a moot argument.

Third, having a DoT is more on-target damage during movement phases, which (while slightly less so for RDMs because of Dualcast) is particularly a weakness for casters between reliance on cast times and lack of autoattack damage. The tradeoff of being "annoying" to maintain is well worth it.
The only reason to justify not having a DoT as a caster, in fact, would be to point to significant burst damage... except that BLMs easily have superior burst to us and still have a DoT.

Fourth, DoTs are opportunities. Thunder gives BLMs an influx of procs to shake up their rotation, I've seen suggestions to have them provide resources or reduce select cooldowns, etc. Loads of ways to make a DoT unique and even add to the gameplay beyond just being a timer, so I shouldn't hear "well we're unique for not having one" either because 'unique' on its own isn't the same as 'good'.
My only concern with adding a DoT would purely be avoiding dull Multi-Dotting periods in our already-dull AoE, and there are loads of ways to avoid that (spread effects like Bane, alternative versions like Thunder 2/4, making it an AoE DoT outright like Aero 3, even just limiting it to one effect as suggested).

[Shurrikhan]

I honestly don't understand all the knee-jerk reactions to the concept of any DoT spells whatsoever for RDM. I've seen it here, on Reddit, in-game discussions...

I think it mostly comes down to the obligation of play and just the fact that at this point... almost everyone else has one, so what need does RDM really have for it? I'd argue the warrant isn't that solid, as creating "unique" gameplay or niche is rarely the purpose of DoTs (only the class with far more DoTs than any other, and therefore greater ramp-up but also greater cleave and sustain, can really claim such).

First of all, RDMs have a significantly lower stat weight for Spell Speed due to Dualcast. DoT ticks are affected by Spell Speed, which would bring the stat weight up.

DoT ticks are affected by Spell Speed, but at a lesser rate, even, than Determination, iirc. Spell Speed still wouldn't be any better in itself; it's just that more of your damage would be GCD-based (or, less oGCD-based).

[Kabooa]

DoT ticks are affected by Spell Speed, but at a lesser rate, even, than Determination, iirc. Spell Speed still wouldn't be any better in itself; it's just that more of your damage would be GCD-based (or, less oGCD-based).

Speed stats are weighted on two scales. The actual increase, and the amount of damage it affects.

Using arbitrary numbers, let's say the example is is Determination is worth 1% damage and Speed is worth 1% haste, for the same rating.

Speed scales differently than flat damage%. Speed is parabolic increase. 10% Speed is worth 11% more damage (11 actions take 9.9 gcds, 10 actions take 10. 10% damage is always 10% damage. This is why if you've ever seen a black Mage get improved arrows while leyline is active, they skyrocket. 15% + 15% on a multiplicative return is somthing like 28% speed, or about -40%- more damage.

But currently you cannot get to stupid speed levels without heavy buff stacking.

Using Red Mage specifically, any if you completely geared for Spellspeed, I think the highest natural point you can reach via gear is about 14%. About 16% more GCD based damage.

Using non-echo #1 Chaos Red mage, this Red Mage has a damage distrubition of about 82% GCD, 18% OGCD.

But wait, it's more complicated than that. The weaponskill combo is obviously not affected by Spellspeed. While more spell speed means you do the combo more often, that combo is suffering as it does not directly benefit from spellspeed in terms of damage. That's nearly another 18% damage that doesn't benefit from Spellspeed - After all, the advantage is more GCDs, but these GCDs are unaffected by that.

So the 14% spell speed you built for only benefits 64% of a Red mage's damage. This spellspeed number is built at the detriment of other stats as well.

[Archwizard]

So the 14% spell speed you built for only benefits 64% of a Red mage's damage. This spellspeed number is built at the detriment of other stats as well.

Exactly why we should allow more sources of our damage to be affected by Spell Speed -- because ultimately even if you don't slot in Materia specifically for Spell Speed, you're going to end up with a base amount from gearing at any given item level, which would otherwise drag you down.
A DoT wouldn't be enough on its own, obviously, but it could be a start. Also affecting our weapon skills and perhaps (indirectly, like our weapon skills currently) even affecting our cooldown timers would be able to add to this, until our stat parity is comparable to other casters.

[Dralonis]

I'll pass on anything dot related. It doesn't add any depth nor value and it's not fun. I also don't care to be balanced around it. Not everyone needs a dot and it's refreshing to not have to deal with it.

I personally don't see them adding tons of complexity. Honestly, I almost get a feeling they may make some other classes a bit less complex or a bit more fair feeling. They see how popular Samurai and RDM are and they are a bit less complex, so they may try for a healthy medium. They could still add a bit more to rdm and samurai of course, but not to that of the levels a lot of people think they will.

[Dualgunner]

I'd rather avoid any DoTs being added for the sake of a DoT. If the DoT provided a unique mechanic somehow (beyond "Hey it generates mana too!"), I might be on board with it.

[Jessicake]

I just want it to stay simple. I am stupid clumsy in this game and I play RDM so I can run around like a chicken with their head cut off and still bring significant DPS.

[KaerisKlyne]

I honestly don't think it needs more than maybe a single oGCD dps skill to use when Fleche and Contre are on cooldown, the removal of Embolden's drop-off, and the addition of non-damaging party support in the same way BLMs oGCDs are self-serving.

5.0 feels like a real chance to move away from stringent DPS-check-based encounter design to open party comps that might allow different, equally effective ways to get stuff done, and it wouldn't make the game any easier, just more accessible even at a meta level of play for the tiny fraction of the community for which that matters. Doing something like the above for RDM feels like an interesting way to open the floor for more varied and approachable encounters at all levels of play.

[Kabooa]

I think you could make Scatter more fun to spam is that each proc of enhanced scatter also reduced the recast time. Let those enhanced scatter chains just come out the gate like an endless barrage of fireworks.

Then you add an Ability that prevents your VerFire, Verstone, and Enhanced Scatter from expiring for like 15 seconds. Bam. Maybe trait it to Accelerate, where the activation it procs remains usable for 2 or 3 casts. Improved Red Mage AoE and improved Red Mage burst window.

YOU GET A VERHOLY
AND YOU GET A VERHOLY
YOU ALL GET

Shi- I'm unbalanced. How do I fix thi-

Trait Corps a Corps to level you back down to "Red Balance" while gaining bonus potency based on how much Mana was lost.

Man, too many traits. How about some new sp-

VerBlizzard and VerFreeze! Using Verholy grants you unbalanced black until you use Verflare, turning VerFire into VerBlizzard and VerThunder into VerFreeze. These generate more black mana and have 0 MP cost.

VerWater and VerFlood! Using Verflare grants you unbalanced white until you use VerHoly, t urning VerStone into VerWater and VerAero into VerFlood! These generate more white mana and have shorter cast times!

ManaFont! A melee weaponskill that leaves a grievous wound on the enemy! This wound lasts for 21 seconds, causing your next Melee Weaponskill to be used against them to gain 30 potency per 3 seconds the wound has persisted. (Handy number on the 'wound' icon for easy tracking). Consuming this wound grants greater mana returns! Enchanted ManaFont extends this duration to 45 seconds!

But wait! There's more! ManaFont consumes Enhanced Scatter to additionally apply the wound to all enemies near the target!

You get a moulinet!

And YOU get a moulinet!

You ALL GET A MOULINET!

Hopefully you all like at least one of those.

[Archwizard]

-snip-

• My main concern with things like having skills with shorter cast times is that they would often replace skills that are often spammed on Dualcast anyway.
• I've actually been thinking about something like that recently. It's not really a high priority (as RDMs are arguably the most mobile casters, and I'd much rather focus on MP/survivability/rotation speed), but as a Black counterpart to having Vercure grant Dualcast, we could potentially receive a cheap Verscathe for movement phases, that instantly refreshes Verfire/Verstone/EnScatter/Impactful timers...
  (Although given how many procs we have, I would understand if extension would be a bit much compared to say, a chance to grant Dualcast instead, or to consume active procs to instantly cast them off-GCD.)
• While I like the suggestion to have Verholy/Verflare grant a buff that swaps between the two, I think my concern with buffing all gains of the opposite type means it's easier to get "too much" of the other mana type and end up just chaining the same Verfinisher over and over. (Plus when I was saying Verwater/Verflood and Verblizzard/Verfreeze, I was trying to go for "one or the other" on Water and Ice spells, not necessarily both.)
• I like what you're putting down with ManaFont in ST -- rush into melee to hit the target with it when you get half-Mana levels (or slap it right after a melee combo if Manafication's up) to buff your next Enchanted Riposte. Or, maybe even use Riposte outside of a combo action and use ManaFont twice as often.
  You mention "consuming the Wound for greater mana returns", but I'm somewhat confused what this means. Wouldn't using a weapon skill consume mana? Or did you mean MP? And wouldn't spreading the Wound mean getting way more mana (or MP) in AoE?