What if DNC is SHOMHOW a DPS?

[kikix12]

I think you missed my point. Not sure how I could make it clearer though.

Your point is that Red Mage we have is also the Magic Knight (the job of other games, not a general type of character) of FFXIV. My point is that unlike Astrologian and Time Game or Warrior and Viking or Bard and Ranger...Red Mage of FFXIV have zero similarities to the actual Magic Knight in his skills or mechanics. Magic Knight never was about using mana for physical skills (which Red Mage does) but about using spells to enchant the weapon with them and attack with them through the blade.

The only reason why Red Mage even have rapier skills is because otherwise the classes nature as a physically-capable attacker would've been lost. Its auto-attack after all is pitiful and they decided that instead of making actual melee caster (with magical auto-attack), they'd just show the fencing ability through skills.

Also, each game is separate. Saying that Red Mage in FFXIV is taking the spot of Mystic Knight unless proved otherwise because it was kinda like that in other games is pretty pointless. The current iteration of Red Mage shares nothing with Mystic Knight other than the fact that both are capable both with blade and magic.

[Seraphor]

How exactly would this Mystic Knight be more of a magic knight than Paladin or Dark Knight?

Elements dont nean anything in this game, so I guess they'd just be charging up their sword to increase the potency of their melee attacks.
Sounds an awful lot like dark arts to me.

[Seraphor]

Magic Knight never was about using mana for physical skills (which Red Mage does) but about using spells to enchant the weapon with them and attack with them through the blade.

Wait what?
Thats exactly what Red Mage does. Charges up mana to empower the weapon.

[kikix12]

Thats exactly what Red Mage does. Charges up mana to empower the weapon.

Yeah. And that's the exact OPPOSITE of what Magic Knight does.

Magic Knights weapon is enchanted with a SPELL. Red Mages weapon is just powered up with MANA. In Magic Knights case spell needs to be cast. In Red Mages case (for the melee combo of course) no spell is cast.

See the difference?! I hope so, because I cannot really explain it in any simpler manner.

Also, Magic Knights had more than just elemental spells. They also had Drain, Poison etc which could very well be used as well. Seriously. No class is going to be the same as it is in single player games, so the argument that elements don't mean anything in this game is just going out of your way to counterargument something when there's nothing else left.

[MorbolvampireQueen6]

How exactly would this Mystic Knight be more of a magic knight than Paladin or Dark Knight?

Elements dont nean anything in this game, so I guess they'd just be charging up their sword to increase the potency of their melee attacks.
Sounds an awful lot like dark arts to me.

You dont undetstand how it worked so ill explain how it could work in ff terms


Bar cds
Barfire-decress physical damage enemys have 2 percent to gain burn status ubon hitting you
Bar-blizzard decrees magic damage --enemys have chance to become frost bittin
Bar-thunder decree crits you take with chance to cause paralysis to attackers


Next attacks

Quack blade-cause earth to tremble infront you - gathers emity in a cone infront of you

Fire-fira-firage blade ---- slam your blade into the ground causing a erruption of fire in 360 degree around you - gathers emity

Single target example
Blizzard blade-blizzage blade
Poison blade- your dot


Ps i just thought that up in 30 seconds if i spent a week i can make it fully laid out lol

[Seraphor]

Yeah. And that's the exact OPPOSITE of what Magic Knight does.

Magic Knights weapon is enchanted with a SPELL. Red Mages weapon is just powered up with MANA. In Magic Knights case spell needs to be cast. In Red Mages case (for the melee combo of course) no spell is cast.

See the difference?! I hope so, because I cannot really explain it in any simpler manner.

Also, Magic Knights had more than just elemental spells. They also had Drain, Poison etc which could very well be used as well. Seriously. No class is going to be the same as it is in single player games, so the argument that elements don't mean anything in this game is just going out of your way to counterargument something when there's nothing else left.

How does a red mage get its mana?

[Barraind]

How does a red mage get its mana?

By casting damage spells at things.

How does a mystic fencer / rune knight / magic knight / whatever term you want, get charges?

By casting self buffs.

How does a red mage use its mana?

Activated abilities.

How does a yournamehere use its weapon charges?

Auto attacking.

What is the primary damage source of a red mage?

Spells

What is the primary damage source of a fillintheblank

Empowered delay-auto attacks


Those two things couldnt be more opposite of each other if they tried.

[Eloah]

Your point is that Red Mage we have is also the Magic Knight (the job of other games, not a general type of character) of FFXIV. My point is that unlike Astrologian and Time Game or Warrior and Viking or Bard and Ranger...Red Mage of FFXIV have zero similarities to the actual Magic Knight in his skills or mechanics. Magic Knight never was about using mana for physical skills (which Red Mage does) but about using spells to enchant the weapon with them and attack with them through the blade.

The only reason why Red Mage even have rapier skills is because otherwise the classes nature as a physically-capable attacker would've been lost. Its auto-attack after all is pitiful and they decided that instead of making actual melee caster (with magical auto-attack), they'd just show the fencing ability through skills.

Also, each game is separate. Saying that Red Mage in FFXIV is taking the spot of Mystic Knight unless proved otherwise because it was kinda like that in other games is pretty pointless. The current iteration of Red Mage shares nothing with Mystic Knight other than the fact that both are capable both with blade and magic.

No. My point was that thematically Red Mage has a lot of similarities to Mystic Knight and that in other games they have had skills and abilities that would make them, that games, Mystic Knight. I merely pointed out that FFXIV's Red Mage is in the same boat. I never said it was FFXIV's version of Mystic Knight.

Also I pointed to FFXI since that game had Red Mage and Rune Fencer. Red Mage in that game used enhancement and enfeebling magicks which coincided with Rune Fencer as a magical sword weilder. I would also like to point out that Rune Fencer in XI had Embolden, and Red Mage in XIV has the same skill.

Yeah. And that's the exact OPPOSITE of what Magic Knight does.

Magic Knights weapon is enchanted with a SPELL. Red Mages weapon is just powered up with MANA. In Magic Knights case spell needs to be cast. In Red Mages case (for the melee combo of course) no spell is cast.

See the difference?! I hope so, because I cannot really explain it in any simpler manner.

Also, Magic Knights had more than just elemental spells. They also had Drain, Poison etc which could very well be used as well. Seriously. No class is going to be the same as it is in single player games, so the argument that elements don't mean anything in this game is just going out of your way to counterargument something when there's nothing else left.

I think you are missing the forest for the trees here. Out of curiousity, how is a Red Mage's MANA generated, by casting SPELLS. The whole premise of a Mystic Knight is to cast a spell to enchant your weapon so that it deals extra damage to the target. I'm pretty sure that definition can fits the FFXIV version of Red Mage.

[Seraphor]

By casting damage spells at things.



By casting self buffs.




Activated abilities.




Auto attacking.



Spells



Empowered delay-auto attacks


Those two things couldnt be more opposite of each other if they tried.

And so what makes "having autoattacks" so different from Paladin or Dark Knight?

[linay]

Wait, so mystic knight is basically what the whole Vivi + Steiner combo is all about in FFIX without the separate caster part?

Now that would make an interesting healer, possibly adding healing-by-damage and/or melee-healing to the current healer option.