What if DNC is SHOMHOW a DPS?

[Seraphor]

The irony being that Beatrix is a Paladin, and I think this topic came about by comparing Paladins to Mystic Knights. I guess we've come full circle, huh?

More specifically, this whole thing came about because of a couple people saying PLD and DRK aren’t real magic knights and we need a mystic Knight to get a real magic knight. Which is just ridiculous.

DRK is a magic knight.
It uses MP, to cast magic spells, that deal magic damage.
It also hits stuff with its sword.
(This whole “It’s not magic it’s ‘the darkness within’” stuff is nonsense, it’s still magic, just like Black Magic is fuelled by your own aether, it doesn’t matter where that MP is coming from, the end product is magic)

PLD is also a magic knight.
It hits stuff with its sword for its main combo, and has a shield bash, but everything else it does is magic spells that deal magic damage or heal/shield.

And guess what, Mystic Knight is also a magic knight.
They are all knight based classes that use magic.

[Kurando]

Apparently Beatrix uses a combination of some white magic, including a healing spell, a resurrection spell, and the Holy spell, as well as some of Steiner's sword arts, which deal thunder, non-elemental, or physical damage.

Beatrix was just a hybrid in that she had a tailored toolkit taken from categories of skills already used by other characters. Selection of White Magic from Dagger and Eiko, and a few Sword Art skills from Steiner. I mean there was nothing unique about Beatrix's kit other than Sword Art being called Seiken, which is pretty much the same thing. Beatrix had one Silence spell taken from WHM, doesn't make Dagger or Eiko Runic Knights though so not sure why the other person is so adamant things can only be one way in all FF games....

Aside from it being confirmed Bea definitely was a Paladin in IX and the borrowed skill sets added to that, but we could say Steiner was a Runic Knight to some degree because he had a specific set for enchanting the blade with elemental energy (from Vivi) to use offensively.

[linay]

Yeah, FFIX doesn't really have a job system. It has characters with a set of skills that may or may not correspond to a specific job in another FF title, like both Dagger and Eiko having skills from both summoner and white mage jobs.

[kikix12]

Also I pointed to FFXI since that game had Red Mage and Rune Fencer. Red Mage in that game used enhancement and enfeebling magicks which coincided with Rune Fencer as a magical sword weilder. I would also like to point out that Rune Fencer in XI had Embolden, and Red Mage in XIV has the same skill.

...Eh...what part of "Final Fantasy V had both Mystic Knight AND a Red Mage and the Red Mage we have is pretty faithful to Final Fantasy V's Red Mage." do you not understand?! Final Fantasy V is the original game in which Mystic Knight first appeared. That is the game which made its identity. It was a single player game so it was devoid of all the crap that MMO's have to deal with for the sake of balance and what not as well. If you're looking at a class identity...look at the source.

Or maybe now you want to say that our Red Mage is also kinda similar to an Onion Knight because the skill Embolden, originating in FFXI (it was never a skill in single player game), is used by Onion Knight Refia in Final Fantasy Brave Exvius?!

Also, Red Mage NEVER was in any way similar to Mystic Knight in any single player game. I don't know about Final Fantasy XI, I admit, but I do know that it was a game with a pretty "free" interpretation of certain jobs. It is by no means an argument to say that "This or that class have this or that skill set.", especially since every single other game in existence, before and after it, blatantly says to the contrary.

I think you are missing the forest for the trees here. Out of curiousity, how is a Red Mage's MANA generated, by casting SPELLS.

Doesn't matter. Most jobs in this game generate mana. That doesn't make all of them Red Mages or Mystic Knights. It's not about how mana is generated, it's about how it is used.
Red Mages are born from time when Black Magic and White Magic users "buried their hatchet" and joined forces, teaching each other their art, thus making it possible for a single person to use both kinds of magic. Seeing as spells leave aetheric residue whose nature is based on what spell was used (you know, the core point of a lot of stories, including several plot points), it's only reasonable to assume that the black and white mana that Red Mages accumulate is simply that. A balance of black and white aetheric residue that they store in their crystal and combine, able to utilize it to strengthen their rapier.
Really, it's not that hard.

The whole premise of a Mystic Knight is to cast a spell to enchant your weapon so that it deals extra damage to the target. I'm pretty sure that definition can fits the FFXIV version of Red Mage.

No...Red Mage in FFXIV never, ever casts a spell on its rapier. NEVER. He strengthens its rapier with mana, yes. But a Mystic Knight is about passing spells effect onto the sword. There is no spell effect on Red Mages rapier. How many times do I have to explain it before you realize that the difference between "Cast a spell on a weapon then use the weapon to attack with both the blade and the spell." and "Make the weapon hurt more with magic." is the entire reason behind this discussion. Coating a weapon in some sort of energy is a fundamental high-fantasy technique. Warriors do it, Paladins do it, Dark Knights do it, Samurais do it, Bards do it, Monks do it, Dragoons do it...Every single physical job does it. The specific energy varies. But the idea is there. Mystic Knight does not coat their weapons with energy. It gives the weapon a specific, additional effect, that does not need to be damage either, since it is an entire, capable spell.


Anyway...that is all. I won't even bother answering to the guy that clearly doesn't give a darn about the lore of the game either. It's just not worth the time. Believe what you will.

[Kaedan]

Guys, please. You've taken the thread way off topic. Create a new thread about Mystic Knights/Rune Knights, etc please.

[Eloah]

snip

Wow. You are just a walking contradiction, aren't you. I guess you missed the info that SE has creative license to do what they will with their job properties. They can merge, deconstruct, and revamp any of them, any way they wish: Gun Mage, Puppetmaster, Corsair, Memorist, Vampire, etc. Plus I guess you weren't paying attention when I was just pointing out that Red Mage and Mystic Knight merely have overlap, conceptually, in certain areas. I never said we wont get Mystic Knight because we have Red Mage, nor did I say FFXIV's version of Red Mage was their "Mystic Knight", I've just been pointing out their overlap. Oh and If we are looking at sources, why does FFXIV's RDM use a rapier and have a rose motif, that wasn't in FFV, but then again FFV isn't the source of RDM anyway, FFI is. But As you say this is a fruitless endeaver. But if you want a real kicker, go check out Final Fantasy Dimensions version of Red Mage; you're gonna laugh...

Red Mage Dimensions
Magic Blade Dimensions

xi didn't have mystic knight

Rune Fencer says hi

Guys, please. You've taken the thread way off topic. Create a new thread about Mystic Knights/Rune Knights, etc please.

You are absolutely right, and I apologize for perpetuating this. I was responding to a small inquiry and it looks as though it got out of hand.

[Alucard135]

Well OP, you got the answer now lol.

[Risvertasashi]

And here I thought my prediction earlier in the thread was purely theoretical. What a time to be alive.

[Burningskull]

Well OP, you got the answer now lol.

Yes. And I'm even more angry now that since they didn't add a healer that Gunbreaker isn't a DPS. Oh well. Maybe I'll main dancer instead...