What if DNC is SHOMHOW a DPS?

[Flatopia]

In-flavour everyone is a wizard of some kind. Even Warrior uses skills that use aether and are used via particular methods of calling upon their aether-based skills (read: spells)

Literally every job is a mage. But in gameplay terms I’d love to see how they’d handle rune-fencer or rune-knight or magic-knight whatever semantics is official these days. It’d be cool! Hope if we do we get the middle eastern turban look from 5.

[Seraphor]

How exactly would this Mystic Knight be more of a magic knight than Paladin or Dark Knight?

Elements dont nean anything in this game, so I guess they'd just be charging up their sword to increase the potency of their melee attacks.
Sounds an awful lot like dark arts to me.

[Seraphor]

Magic Knight never was about using mana for physical skills (which Red Mage does) but about using spells to enchant the weapon with them and attack with them through the blade.

Wait what?
Thats exactly what Red Mage does. Charges up mana to empower the weapon.

[kikix12]

Thats exactly what Red Mage does. Charges up mana to empower the weapon.

Yeah. And that's the exact OPPOSITE of what Magic Knight does.

Magic Knights weapon is enchanted with a SPELL. Red Mages weapon is just powered up with MANA. In Magic Knights case spell needs to be cast. In Red Mages case (for the melee combo of course) no spell is cast.

See the difference?! I hope so, because I cannot really explain it in any simpler manner.

Also, Magic Knights had more than just elemental spells. They also had Drain, Poison etc which could very well be used as well. Seriously. No class is going to be the same as it is in single player games, so the argument that elements don't mean anything in this game is just going out of your way to counterargument something when there's nothing else left.

[Eloah]

Your point is that Red Mage we have is also the Magic Knight (the job of other games, not a general type of character) of FFXIV. My point is that unlike Astrologian and Time Game or Warrior and Viking or Bard and Ranger...Red Mage of FFXIV have zero similarities to the actual Magic Knight in his skills or mechanics. Magic Knight never was about using mana for physical skills (which Red Mage does) but about using spells to enchant the weapon with them and attack with them through the blade.

The only reason why Red Mage even have rapier skills is because otherwise the classes nature as a physically-capable attacker would've been lost. Its auto-attack after all is pitiful and they decided that instead of making actual melee caster (with magical auto-attack), they'd just show the fencing ability through skills.

Also, each game is separate. Saying that Red Mage in FFXIV is taking the spot of Mystic Knight unless proved otherwise because it was kinda like that in other games is pretty pointless. The current iteration of Red Mage shares nothing with Mystic Knight other than the fact that both are capable both with blade and magic.

No. My point was that thematically Red Mage has a lot of similarities to Mystic Knight and that in other games they have had skills and abilities that would make them, that games, Mystic Knight. I merely pointed out that FFXIV's Red Mage is in the same boat. I never said it was FFXIV's version of Mystic Knight.

Also I pointed to FFXI since that game had Red Mage and Rune Fencer. Red Mage in that game used enhancement and enfeebling magicks which coincided with Rune Fencer as a magical sword weilder. I would also like to point out that Rune Fencer in XI had Embolden, and Red Mage in XIV has the same skill.

Yeah. And that's the exact OPPOSITE of what Magic Knight does.

Magic Knights weapon is enchanted with a SPELL. Red Mages weapon is just powered up with MANA. In Magic Knights case spell needs to be cast. In Red Mages case (for the melee combo of course) no spell is cast.

See the difference?! I hope so, because I cannot really explain it in any simpler manner.

Also, Magic Knights had more than just elemental spells. They also had Drain, Poison etc which could very well be used as well. Seriously. No class is going to be the same as it is in single player games, so the argument that elements don't mean anything in this game is just going out of your way to counterargument something when there's nothing else left.

I think you are missing the forest for the trees here. Out of curiousity, how is a Red Mage's MANA generated, by casting SPELLS. The whole premise of a Mystic Knight is to cast a spell to enchant your weapon so that it deals extra damage to the target. I'm pretty sure that definition can fits the FFXIV version of Red Mage.

[kikix12]

Also I pointed to FFXI since that game had Red Mage and Rune Fencer. Red Mage in that game used enhancement and enfeebling magicks which coincided with Rune Fencer as a magical sword weilder. I would also like to point out that Rune Fencer in XI had Embolden, and Red Mage in XIV has the same skill.

...Eh...what part of "Final Fantasy V had both Mystic Knight AND a Red Mage and the Red Mage we have is pretty faithful to Final Fantasy V's Red Mage." do you not understand?! Final Fantasy V is the original game in which Mystic Knight first appeared. That is the game which made its identity. It was a single player game so it was devoid of all the crap that MMO's have to deal with for the sake of balance and what not as well. If you're looking at a class identity...look at the source.

Or maybe now you want to say that our Red Mage is also kinda similar to an Onion Knight because the skill Embolden, originating in FFXI (it was never a skill in single player game), is used by Onion Knight Refia in Final Fantasy Brave Exvius?!

Also, Red Mage NEVER was in any way similar to Mystic Knight in any single player game. I don't know about Final Fantasy XI, I admit, but I do know that it was a game with a pretty "free" interpretation of certain jobs. It is by no means an argument to say that "This or that class have this or that skill set.", especially since every single other game in existence, before and after it, blatantly says to the contrary.

I think you are missing the forest for the trees here. Out of curiousity, how is a Red Mage's MANA generated, by casting SPELLS.

Doesn't matter. Most jobs in this game generate mana. That doesn't make all of them Red Mages or Mystic Knights. It's not about how mana is generated, it's about how it is used.
Red Mages are born from time when Black Magic and White Magic users "buried their hatchet" and joined forces, teaching each other their art, thus making it possible for a single person to use both kinds of magic. Seeing as spells leave aetheric residue whose nature is based on what spell was used (you know, the core point of a lot of stories, including several plot points), it's only reasonable to assume that the black and white mana that Red Mages accumulate is simply that. A balance of black and white aetheric residue that they store in their crystal and combine, able to utilize it to strengthen their rapier.
Really, it's not that hard.

The whole premise of a Mystic Knight is to cast a spell to enchant your weapon so that it deals extra damage to the target. I'm pretty sure that definition can fits the FFXIV version of Red Mage.

No...Red Mage in FFXIV never, ever casts a spell on its rapier. NEVER. He strengthens its rapier with mana, yes. But a Mystic Knight is about passing spells effect onto the sword. There is no spell effect on Red Mages rapier. How many times do I have to explain it before you realize that the difference between "Cast a spell on a weapon then use the weapon to attack with both the blade and the spell." and "Make the weapon hurt more with magic." is the entire reason behind this discussion. Coating a weapon in some sort of energy is a fundamental high-fantasy technique. Warriors do it, Paladins do it, Dark Knights do it, Samurais do it, Bards do it, Monks do it, Dragoons do it...Every single physical job does it. The specific energy varies. But the idea is there. Mystic Knight does not coat their weapons with energy. It gives the weapon a specific, additional effect, that does not need to be damage either, since it is an entire, capable spell.


Anyway...that is all. I won't even bother answering to the guy that clearly doesn't give a darn about the lore of the game either. It's just not worth the time. Believe what you will.

[MorbolvampireQueen6]

How exactly would this Mystic Knight be more of a magic knight than Paladin or Dark Knight?

Elements dont nean anything in this game, so I guess they'd just be charging up their sword to increase the potency of their melee attacks.
Sounds an awful lot like dark arts to me.

You dont undetstand how it worked so ill explain how it could work in ff terms


Bar cds
Barfire-decress physical damage enemys have 2 percent to gain burn status ubon hitting you
Bar-blizzard decrees magic damage --enemys have chance to become frost bittin
Bar-thunder decree crits you take with chance to cause paralysis to attackers


Next attacks

Quack blade-cause earth to tremble infront you - gathers emity in a cone infront of you

Fire-fira-firage blade ---- slam your blade into the ground causing a erruption of fire in 360 degree around you - gathers emity

Single target example
Blizzard blade-blizzage blade
Poison blade- your dot


Ps i just thought that up in 30 seconds if i spent a week i can make it fully laid out lol

[Seraphor]

Yeah. And that's the exact OPPOSITE of what Magic Knight does.

Magic Knights weapon is enchanted with a SPELL. Red Mages weapon is just powered up with MANA. In Magic Knights case spell needs to be cast. In Red Mages case (for the melee combo of course) no spell is cast.

See the difference?! I hope so, because I cannot really explain it in any simpler manner.

Also, Magic Knights had more than just elemental spells. They also had Drain, Poison etc which could very well be used as well. Seriously. No class is going to be the same as it is in single player games, so the argument that elements don't mean anything in this game is just going out of your way to counterargument something when there's nothing else left.

How does a red mage get its mana?

[Barraind]

How does a red mage get its mana?

By casting damage spells at things.

How does a mystic fencer / rune knight / magic knight / whatever term you want, get charges?

By casting self buffs.

How does a red mage use its mana?

Activated abilities.

How does a yournamehere use its weapon charges?

Auto attacking.

What is the primary damage source of a red mage?

Spells

What is the primary damage source of a fillintheblank

Empowered delay-auto attacks


Those two things couldnt be more opposite of each other if they tried.

[Seraphor]

By casting damage spells at things.



By casting self buffs.




Activated abilities.




Auto attacking.



Spells



Empowered delay-auto attacks


Those two things couldnt be more opposite of each other if they tried.

And so what makes "having autoattacks" so different from Paladin or Dark Knight?