Idea for an optional role: Support

[Phelsetti]

"So what is this ridiculous Support role I'm talking about?" This is an optional role for limited jobs and even DoH/DoL to a certain extent become more involved in dungeons/alliance raids/trials etc.

When I mean optional I mean that duty finder related stuff will offer an extra slot exclusive to support roles. It will not be mandatory for them to join, so you can still queue normally without one. All they will provide is extra assistance if they end up joining.

A Support role that joins in this manner will only have their ability actions available to use. So weapon skills, spells and role actions are not usable during these instances. For example, Blue Mage will only have access to Glass Dance, Eruption, Off-Guard or anything else with an individual cooldown.

Support roles will be way more durable, similar to NPCs that join you on instances, but they won't hold agro and become targeted by actions or auto attacks. They can however, still get hit by AoE effects and be put under certain status effects and disables that is part of the mechanics.

Certain disables, like the Seduce effect from Ruby Princess, will give you a bonus action called "Hydaelyn's Light" that lets you automatically break free from these effects. This way it will not directly interfere with the other party members. They will also not be involved with loot rolls unless all the other party members do not want it.

"So they aren't too amazingly useful and kinda just there, so what's the point?" Both the party members and Support will gain extra rewards like bonus experience and gil as well as support specific drops like rare crafting ingredients if they're DoH/DoL. Limited jobs will still be able to do what they're specific niche that needs to be fulfilled. So Blue Mage will still be able to learn new actions from enemies as a Support role.

Both DoH and DoL gain new specific actions that are related to their class. Like Alchemist can apply health potions for allies or drop explosives on enemies, Botanist gains medicinal herbs that can cures status ailments or give slight buffs or debuffs, Culinarian can set up a small meal that gives additional stat boosts or they could just chop up certain types of enemies for extra ingredients.

Support roles will not have access to raids (like Bahamut/Alexander/Omega) and extreme/Minstrel's Ballad instances.

TL;DR Ramblings of a guy with a dream of seeing limited jobs more included in contents.

[Risvertasashi]

I think it would be a lot of work on the technical side to have a 5th person, even in a minor role. And the way SE sees it, 'support' is rolled into existing classes in bits and pieces rather than having a dedicated slot.

What I'd rather see is a potd-like instance for DoH/DoL - where instead of fighting, you craft or gather to solve various puzzles (bribe or put to sleep that monster, fix that machine, etc) to move on. While it might sound like more work at first, I believe it would really be much less - as something like allowing a 5th party member would require not only new actions for 11 classes and redesign of the duty finder system, but also adjustments to 64 dungeons and potentially some story instances and such. New interactions like harvesting from corpses would also very much be non trivial to add, and then you'd have to balance drops and so on.

[Hysterior]

I don't like the idea of support at all but I do think they could do like in 1.0 with missions that need both fighters and crafters to complete.
I don't even remember how it was called already, it was badly implemented but the idea was there.

[Dmhlucky]

Whenever something "optional" comes with Additional bonuses, it becomes Mandatory.

I had actually thought or something similar with Blue, allow them to the DF as an "extra member" but since they are called at 50, any 50 and under content would be a 5 person run, and anything 51+ blu is just too weak to really be helpful, and it only gets compounded the higher the content.

I tried duo Blu an Warrior on Shiva vs War/Whm Not curing (i wanted to see the difference) The damage that a 70 Whm can do in a single spell is 5-6 times what a Blu can do in most spells, And since the Whm is level appropriate, they don't nearly due by any stray hit.

Trust me, i like the idea of trying to incorporate Blu into the DF somehow, but i think until its on par level wise with other jobs, anything over 50 is currently out of the question. And if you limit their abilities to only things with cooldowns, its Really not worth it. Honestly, i wouldn't want to do a run as a Blu with only being able to do 1 action every 30 seconds. And thats IF you have the spells. People are still farming for those spells since they are abysmally low rates of learning.
I think they can just add Blu to the 50 and under content of DF as a DPS. I see no problem with that. Maybe just tweak a few spells, or make a few off limits when in DF, like Missile, Doom, Tail Screw, 1k needles etc, ya know, the spells that are broken low level.

I love the idea of a support role. But as said, SE mashed it into other jobs, and would be weak compared to other jobs if their only role was support.

[MistakeNot]

When I mean optional I mean that duty finder related stuff will offer an extra slot exclusive to support roles. It will not be mandatory for them to join, so you can still queue normally without one. All they will provide is extra assistance if they end up joining.

Wouldn't work without a LOT of changes to the game.
Having a support role isn't a bad idea as such, but it requires that the game and combats are designed for it and balanced for it.
As it is, just adding a fifth person to various duties would just make them a lot easier - and if the extra person doesn't actually make the fight easier, what would the point be of bringing them along?

As it is all the group duties in the game are very strongly designed around the "holy triad" of Tank, Healer, DPS. Any changes to that formula would basically require a complete redesign of all group duties.

[Sylvain]

It's called a healer, you spend 90% of your time doing subpar dps and you shoot a few heal there and there whenever people need it.

[Connor]

I’d rather just have a real dedicated supporter role personally.
Stick Bard / Red Mage / Scholar in there and you’ve got three of the most popular jobs in the game in the roster so nobody can say the role won’t be played (does Machinist even count as a ‘supporter’ anymore? Hard to tell with this game lol)

But yeah, as others have said, there’s no way they’ll ever try and adjust how roles work. They can barely balance the holy trinity; last I checked you can’t have a ‘trinity’ if all three roles are the same (dps) lol

[Acelyn]

it's really amazing how quickly gamers latch onto crummy practices in videogames, why are you begging for gimped content? cause that's what a limited job is, if this was the plan of the dev team, to hope players accept their favorite jobs from FF lore as useless self contained bubbles that cant do anything truly worthwhile in game, then they may have actually succeeded cause players are asking for them as soon as they saw it.

[Kaiserdrache]

What FF14 needs, to ensure, that the support/prevention roles can get integrated more into the current system, is to add to the classes a kind of Specialization System, with that classes will receive the new ability to SWITCH THEIR ROLES.

Every Class Role of the Holy Trinity (DD, Tank, Healer) should exist for each Class as an individual Specialization, which should get under certain circumstances unlocked, either by reaching a specific level in case of the Thaumaturge, or doing something special like a quest for example.

Example: Pugilist

DD Specialization Job = Monk
Healer Specialization Job = Ascetic Weapon changes from Fists to Polestaff (Melee Healer)
Tank Specialization Job = Champion Weapon changes from Fists to Claws/Gauntlets

Example: Thaumaturge
DD Specialization Job = Blackmage
Healer Specialization Job = Redmage WM/BM Hybrid, Weapon changes to Rapier, Class now fused to BLM, Spec gets unlocked with Level 50 where normally RDM's start if you own SB
Tank Specialization = Chronomancer/Timemage, Weapon Changes to Greatshield, new unlocked when implemented

Example Gladiator
Tank Specialization Job = Gunbreaker, unlocked with level 70, weapon changes to Gunblade
DD Specialization Job = Legionnaire weapon changes to Dual Swords or Blade Staff/changeable in combat
Healer Specialization Job = Paladin skills get reworked to become more of healing nature

Example Arcanist
DD Specialization Job = Summoner
Healer Specialization Job = Astrologist, weapon changes to Cards (Scholar gets merged into it and WHM partwise), unlocks with level 30
Tank Specialization Job = Mystic, weapon changes to Mace & Shield

Example Archer
DD Specialization Job = Hunter (skill reworked Bard), gets Animal Pets similar like Summoner's Summons, but as permanent part of them at their side
Healer Specialization Job = Bard with new reworked skills for this, Bards are supporters, no frontline fighters, therefore exist Hunters
Tank Specialization Job = Machinist, weapon changes to Guns, skills get completely reworked for their defensive nature now, strogner focus on Gyros that assist them in tanking, unlocks with level 30

Example Rogue
DD Specialization Job = Ninja
Healer Specialization Job = Gambler, weapon changes to Throwing Knives, uses Dice Skills
Tank Specialization Job = Samurai, weapon changes to Katana, gets skills reworked to work now for its defensive nature, cause Samurai are no offensive warrior,s they are defensive warriors, they existed to protect their folk and their emperor/landlords to whom they loyally served, unlocks with level 50 if you own SB

Example Conjurer
Healer Specialization Job = Whitemage
DD Specialization Job = Necromancer, weapon changes to Voodo Puppet (FFX Lulu Style Combat)
Tank Specialization Job = Druid, weapon changes to elemental Whips, they use the Power of Nature to protect, Wind, Water and especially Earth in their most defensive form in one person

Example Marauder
DD Specialization Job = Warrior, skills get rewored to become more of offensive nature now
Tank Specialization Job = Dark Knight, weapon changes to Greatsword, unlocks with Level 30
Healer Specialization = Cleric, weapon changes to Scythe, Combat Medic

Example Lancer
DD Specialization Job = Dragoon
Tank Specialization Job = Guardian, weapon changes to Longsword & Buckler
Healer Specialization Job = Crusader, a class which makes usage of the mount (Companion only) in combat, weapon changes in this special case not as a kind of more tanking healer hybrid with an supprtive add (Companion Chocobo he can ride on to use Mounted Combat Skills).

This concept would not only just allow to root all the base class less jobs currently to an existing Base Class perfectly, it would make also let look the Arcanist situation better, with just the book jobs being just the DD spec together and the old healing spec Scholar just gettign removed and merged skillwise into other class specs like Whitemage and would make in the end all classes more versatile, if all base classes could switch with various specializations into one of the three roles, to give this way each class with each role specialization a different gameplay experience as well too.

New Base Class Dancer (Chain Sickle)
DD Specialization Job = Dervish, weapon becomes War Fans
Tank Specialization Job = Minstrel, adds Song Skills to the now defensive dances, weapon chances to Tonfas
Healer Specialization Job = Harlequin, weapon changes to Magic Gloves, they are pantomimic tricksters and use healing illusions and magic tricks in their performances, that are less about dances, and more about mimicry now, able to copy skills from others in their own unique way

[Dmhlucky]

So basically saying every job turns into Arcanist?
No thanks. I like the idea of being able to set a few abilities that grant support/dps/tanking ability for solo play. But i don't want all jobs branching into 3.

The item clog alone, as is with the current jobs and armory chest space issues, making all jobs branch this way wold be obscene to manage.

I know they worked it out with Arcanist/Scholar and Summoner, but after Blue Mage, it was one of the worst job ideas out there.

You'll also then get everyone queuing as the "easiest" job to play instead of what they are leveling. I know personally, if i am queuing for DF, i'll Always opt to go Sch over Summoner, just for the wait time alone. We don't need that with every job.