Please no more Eureka!

[Alucard135]

Why bother getting gear when it's just going to be nerfed when next expac drops and you can buy vendor gear better than it.

Why bother getting the relic then?

You're mixing doing content for reward and the value of the reward. If the reward has no value to it to the player or no reward at all, then not a lot would bother doing it. Just because the value of the reward diminishes over a long period of time, doesn't mean people shouldn't bother doing it (there are people that still farm A12s for glamour, yet no one bothers with second coils savage). There are those that like the fact that the reward they have is something unique and hard to obtain in its current time. Just because it will be something that everyone can obtain once the expansion drops, should they stop working for these rewards all together?

Also, the logic that Eureka needs to have the Relic reward as the carrot on the stick to get people to go through it is asinine, especially when by your own words "You get full gear sets, mounts, minions, glamour, hairstyles and furniture and lots more."

But it’s an acceptable logic to use the relic when forcing players to replay old content? The only reason this entire thread started is because of the reward that was lost. A weapon and nothing more. Which proves that the value of the reward is significant to the players. It’s a weapon that will be outdated by a vendor weapon in the next expansion. I don’t see a lot of people complaining that they want them to make Eureka better (hence asking for a better and fun gameplay). No, they want either the reward to be removed, or remove Eureka completely. So the reward was the driving factor.

The game has lots of content that can cater to almost all the player base as possible. Some people like PVP, some don’t. Some like Eureka, some don’t. Some like running dungeons more than once, some don’t. What caused this entire thread at the end of the day, was that people don’t like that a reward they wanted was tied to a content they didn’t like.

That still doesn't mean it's "Designed" around it. Only that its implementation coincided with the release of it.

Eureka wasn’t designed “around” the relic, it was designed “to obtain” the relic. Just as you can go through savage without any savage gear, you can go through Eureka without any Eurekan gear. But both were designed to be the way to obtain said items.

[Kalise]

Why bother getting the relic then?

Glamour.

The only reason to ever get a Relic when it only becomes statistically relevant AFTER all the content for the expansion has been released.

Also, with unconfirmed availability of post 5.0 Eureka, it's potentially possible that the Eureka Relic might just become effectively unobtainable in the future (As opposed to prior relics which become more easily attainable because higher levels = Easier to farm old content)

If the reward has no value to it to the player or no reward at all, then not a lot would bother doing it.

That is true.

Just because the value of the reward diminishes over a long period of time, doesn't mean people shouldn't bother doing it

You're the one who brought up the argument of "Why would people bother doing X when they knew it was going to get nerfed?"

Every item in the game ends up diminishing in value. Yet, people still try to obtain them.

Every piece of gear in the game will ultimately become meaningless when new content is added that power creeps. Wait long enough and you'll be able to solo the content and get those items anyway.

Without the draw of the content itself being interesting, the carrot is much less appealing (For instance, how many people continued doing Diadem? How many people gave up on Eureka before even finishing Pyros?)

Just because it will be something that everyone can obtain once the expansion drops, should they stop working for these rewards all together?

No, because if they like the content that gives these rewards, then they're having fun playing a game. Which is literally the purpose of playing a game.

But it’s an acceptable logic to use the relic when forcing players to replay old content?

Yes.

Outside of the Relic, there are no other rewards promoting replaying old content. You have Wonderous Tails and that's about it. Other than that there is 0 reason to play old content outside a few gear pieces for glamour (With Trials also getting the ponies/birbs/wolves etc)

Introducing something during an expansion (Since Relics don't seem to be released during X.0) that makes older content relevant (Meaning, increasing the amount of relevant content for players whom have caught up with the most current content, as well as improving the numbers of people running old content so that newer players still have good queue times) is a good thing and something that some players like (Some like to complain though, they don't like doing the "Same thing again". They only like it when they do the same thing, but with a different backdrop )

This has been the Relic in ARR and HW. Sure, they could have added in Mounts (Like the Tank mounts that get people to play Roulettes which involve old content) or Glamour. But they chose to create Relic weapons for this purpose.

The only reason this entire thread started is because of the reward that was lost. A weapon and nothing more. Which proves that the value of the reward is significant to the players.

Yes. But everyone has known that this reward is significant to the players. That why people worked to obtain them previously. Despite them being wholly unnecessary and for the most part, worse than items obtained more easily in the content where having good gear is relevant.

It’s a weapon that will be outdated by a vendor weapon in the next expansion.

It's a weapon that is outdated by current expansions for the most part.

I don’t see a lot of people complaining that they want them to make Eureka better (hence asking for a better and fun gameplay).

Maybe because they don't like the core gameplay of Eureka?

Like, what's the point of someone who doesn't like FATEs trying to complain to make Eureka better when their idea of better would be something that doesn't involve FATEs at all and thus would be completely different content?

No, they want either the reward to be removed, or remove Eureka completely. So the reward was the driving factor.

*Reward to be RETURNED to where it used to be.

Also, yes, the driving factor was the reward. But also, it was fueled by the content. As you can see by the fact that people will ask for the reward to be put back behind old content grinds (Which many people will argue was "Worse") and/or complain about how they dislike Eureka's content.

If it was purely about the reward, then people wouldn't care about where the Relic was, only that it existed.

Just like, there's content that people like that they don't care what the reward is, just that there is one to justify playing the content. (Fun Fact: Some people who argue for Eureka claim this, yet simultaneously argue fiercely to keep specifically the Relic as the end reward for this type of content, suggesting that it's the specific reward itself that matters the most)

The game has lots of content that can cater to almost all the player base as possible. Some people like PVP, some don’t. Some like Eureka, some don’t. Some like running dungeons more than once, some don’t. What caused this entire thread at the end of the day, was that people don’t like that a reward they wanted was tied to a content they didn’t like.

Yup.

Because previously, the Relic wasn't tied to a single specific content.

It was a reward, that could cater to almost all the playerbase, provided they put in the grind.

Dungeon grinders could grind dungeons for light and tomes.

Raiders could grind raids for light and tomes.

FATE groups could grind FATEs for light.

PvPers could grind PvP for light.

Hunters could farm Hunts for tomes.

If continuing this trend, Eurekans could farm Eureka for light and tomes.

Instead, it was changed into being a specific reward for a specific piece of content, alienating a majority of the playerbase and either forcing them into content they don't like (Or just don't prefer) or causing them to no longer have any chance to work towards the Relic reward.

Thus, people are upset.

Especially given that there's no definitive rule that the reward for Eureka content NEEDS to be the Relic as opposed to, any number of other Eureka specific rewards which would facilitate the Relic continuing to be this "All inclusive reward" that can be worked towards by almost every type of player in their normal content with the gate being the large grind it entails.

[Alucard135]

Also, with unconfirmed availability of post 5.0 Eureka, it's potentially possible that the Eureka Relic might just become effectively unobtainable in the future (As opposed to prior relics which become more easily attainable because higher levels = Easier to farm old content)

Not really, just removing ilvl sync is enough to make the content a breeze to go through and even soloable. ARR and HW are now a lot easier do to the content being unsynced. So if the same applies, Eurekan one would be the easiest to obtain.

You're the one who brought up the argument of "Why would people bother doing X when they knew it was going to get nerfed?"

I did not. I said why would I bother with content X if it had no rewards and I know it will be nerfed in the process?

(For instance, how many people continued doing Diadem? How many people gave up on Eureka before even finishing Pyros?)

Compare those that finished Pyros to the number of people that did HW relic until February this year and you will see that its higher in EU and JP.

Outside of the Relic, there are no other rewards promoting replaying old content. You have Wonderous Tails and that's about it. Other than that there is 0 reason to play old content outside a few gear pieces for glamour (With Trials also getting the ponies/birbs/wolves etc)

Introducing something during an expansion (Since Relics don't seem to be released during X.0) that makes older content relevant (Meaning, increasing the amount of relevant content for players whom have caught up with the most current content, as well as improving the numbers of people running old content so that newer players still have good queue times) is a good thing and something that some players like (Some like to complain though, they don't like doing the "Same thing again". They only like it when they do the same thing, but with a different backdrop )

This has been the Relic in ARR and HW. Sure, they could have added in Mounts (Like the Tank mounts that get people to play Roulettes which involve old content) or Glamour. But they chose to create Relic weapons for this purpose.

It’s still the same logic you’re against if you were to look from the viewpoint of those against it. They don’t like replaying old content to farm for the relic. So from that point of view, the relic is used as a bait to force them to do it. I hate most of the dungeons that we have. They’re too easy and linear. The only reason I bothered doing Saint Mocianne HM is because it locked mentor roulette.

Now you’re saying it’s OK since it’s bringing something else that is good in return to the game. The same can be said about Eureka. The number of players that are doing it in EU and JP is higher than those that bothered with replaying old content for HW relic (according to the numbers we have) and that’s despite HW having 2 years advantage. So in SE’s point of view, more people are doing Eureka compared to those that replayed old content for the relic, which in this case they will consider Eureka a success.

*Reward to be RETURNED to where it used to be.
It was a reward, that could cater to almost all the playerbase, provided they put in the grind.

This brings us back again to SE’s point of view. If they see that more are getting the relic from Eureka and engaging the content, why would they consider going to the previous style that less people did? If one style allowed more players to get the relic compared to the other, which one should SE choose? Of course, the one that allowed most of the player base to get it in this case. They can combine both methods to get the relic, which will open up the relic to more players. But it’s all up to SE if they are willing to go with this path.

[Kalise]

This brings us back again to SE’s point of view. If they see that more are getting the relic from Eureka and engaging the content, why would they consider going to the previous style that less people did?

Because:

1) People are asking for it. Much like the reasoning for making the switch in the first place.

2) Unlike Eurekans, players advocating for this change aren't asking for exclusivity. Meaning, that Eureka style content can continue to be a source of the Relic and merely get a new wholly unique reward(s) for its ultimate goal.

[Nashred]

I am going to say the real problem is this: Eureka is geared towards the more hardcore mmo player in a game that really is not meant to be a hardcore mmo game. That does not mean there is not hard content in the game. I mean is grindy content that requires allot of work/time content. This kind of content has been just a small part of the game.
Anyone who played FFXI understands this. Lots of work and lots of grind with big rewards that meant something.

FFXIV is mainly geared more towards the people who play more casually. The majority of the content is for those who want to play a few days a week and do something else or play other games. Again that does not mean there are not some hardcore players in the game or some hard content.
This is part of the reason the game drops off between patches.

I believe Eureka was meant more for those who want some more grind and some work. To give some content to do between patches. I think the people that prefer this like content like Eureka. Why not offer content for these people? It expands the games appeal.
I mean it is a relic, shouldn't it not be hard to get and require some time?

This has been a problem for SE all the way back to Coil. Very few people actually finished it before it was nerfed.

SE is never going to make everyone happy no matter what!

[Nariel]

Its not that much about about how hard it is to grind, cause its not, Eureka isn't hard at all (except BA but its not grind, its an actual dungeon/raid 48-56), you can finish it using only one skill and by being AFK 99% of your time, no brain involved.

The game isn't compatible with this kind of grind. FFXI fights wasn't and still aren't even close of how it work in FFXIV, it works in XI because fights are designed with unrelenting slow grind in mind so does korean fast grind MMO, they often are really fast and you have to pull large crowd of monster you obliterate by dozens.

FFXIV combat system isn't made for that kind of grind, mobs are HP sponge with close to zero mecanism. Fates are fates, they get overwhelm by dozens of player and their mecanism are faceroll easy and can be ignored because "whatever I'll be rezed". FFXIV is really made with boss fight in mind, boss are timed according to our rotation et our skills are timed for us to take account of mecanism both of those aren't part of Eureka gameplay for 90% of your time in.

[Nashred]

Its not that much about about how hard it is to grind, cause its not, Eureka isn't hard at all (except BA but its not grind, its an actual dungeon/raid 48-56), you can finish it using only one skill and by being AFK 99% of your time, no brain involved.

The game isn't compatible with this kind of grind. FFXI fights wasn't and still aren't even close of how it work in FFXIV, it works in XI because fights are designed with unrelenting slow grind in mind so does korean fast grind MMO, they often are really fast and you have to pull large crowd of monster you obliterate by dozens.

FFXIV combat system isn't made for that kind of grind, mobs are HP sponge with close to zero mecanism. Fates are fates, they get overwhelm by dozens of player and their mecanism are faceroll easy and can be ignored because "whatever I'll be rezed". FFXIV is really made with boss fight in mind, boss are timed according to our rotation et our skills are timed for us to take account of mecanism both of those aren't part of Eureka gameplay for 90% of your time in.

I never said it was hard. I said lots of work and time.

My exact words were:

"I mean is grindy content that requires allot of work/time content."

If that post was directed at mine..

[Nariel]

I never said it was hard. I said lots of work and time.

My exact words were:

"I mean is grindy content that requires allot of work/time content."

If that post was directed at what I at mine..

Neverming, misunderstood that part.

But still, Eureka is in fact less grindy that previous relic step and faster. What I mean is its not about the quantity of grind that matter that much, its how the said grind don't take account of how the game work and become stale really fast.

The Relic alway was a grind-fest, but most of it had option for player to alleviate that grind by progressing during their main/favorite activity or the optimal path if you wanted to, those grind steps had variation, light and fate farm were already a thing but was only one step, here in eureka case its like doing the same HW step again and again and again starting from zero everytime.

Eureka use already stale activity for the whole duration and added out of place grind to the mix with a nostalgia stamp on it.

[Nashred]

Neverming, misunderstood that part.

But still, Eureka is in fact less grindy that previous relic step and faster.

You might be right but people complained about all the relics.
I remember the fate drops on the first relic.

[Nariel]

You might be right but people complained about all the relics.
I remember the fate drops on the first relic.

Yup, relic was alway a hot topic.

That step was the Atma, easely one of the most hated and still Eureka is all about doign fate. I'm 100% sur I endure far more fate in Eureka than Atma ever asked me to do. In fact, I finished the atma step pretty fast probably day one and still hated how boring it was to just chain fate.