Please no more Eureka!

[Physic]

Which are unique to Eureka because?

They could literally design FATEs like that in the open world that you have to do for Relic quests. Much like with the 2 Relic Trials from ARR.

--edited for char--
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1) fates are not unique to eureka, but eureka gathers all the people who need to do these fates as a starting point, open world fates in ffxiv overworld are not post max level content, 60% of the players in northern thanalan are not there for chimera, and a max level charachter gets little benefit doing this fate.

2)current atma farm does not require less fates for all 13 jobs, its not guaranteed per fate, and each weapon needs 13 or 12 stones thats 26 fates assuming 50% drop rate. per weapon, the anemos step requires 357 anemos crystals on average. thats going to be overall a similar level of fates. the difference is, this is the starting point, instead of the nerfed grind 3 years after the weapon is released, and the anemos weapon takes you from 290-355 for 25-30 fates, whereas the original relic takes you from 80 to 90 for that grind. and lets be honest it was way more fates. atma farm is not even close to 1/3 of the relic process.

3) new boss fates with new monsters and new mechanics are not old content. a new dungeon is not old content just because it is a dungeon.

4) except at this point they already have many flashy weapons, any new relic will no longer be the flashiest weapon, they got 2 flashy zodiac 3-4 flashy anima, 3 versions of flashy eureka, flashy primal weapons, flashy potd weapons. Im not even using the final eureka weapon's model. If you want to do regular stormblood content for a weapon, tomestone fills that, if you want to get a flashy weapon, its like a 1/12 chance whatever new relic is your flavour of flashy, only to get lower as more weapons are released.

5) progressing raids is one flavor of content that is already well rewarded, why would they put even more rewards of the same type in the same content? doing regular dungeon content is already the meat and potatoes. It makes sense to reward something different equally, to get people to whom the other two methods do not appeal.

6) light is obtained also through effeciently killing specific monsters, as well as fates, if pretty ineffecient to do nothing while waiting for fates for light. Basically by mastering the knowledge and abilities of eureka, you see greater gains. strategy and planning, and knowledge of the monsters and area is a key part of the design of eureka, and thus timely relic completion. And fighting one dragon is more entertaining than spamming tam tara solo to me.


the fates in eureka require partipation, unless your party carries you.

aoe spam killing is not effecient for anything in eureka, other than spawning low level fates, its extremely common in dungeons though. Most of my eureka progress was with 2-4 players, so my personal contribution was always important to progress.

[Kalise]

1) fates are not unique to eureka, but eureka gathers all the people who need to do these fates as a starting point, open world fates in ffxiv overworld are not post max level content, 60% of the players in northern thanalan are not there for chimera, and a max level charachter gets little benefit doing this fate.

So would any overworld content that was required to do Relics.

Literally, we have The Lochs which is a level 69-70 zone where ALL FATEs there are level 69.

I honestly don't see how this is drastically different to Eureka and its content that is based around level 70's... That also have secondary Elemental Levels causing a rift between players... Magia board being restricted behind Elemental Levels in Anemos... And Lologram obtaining...

2)current atma farm does not require less fates for all 13 jobs, its not guaranteed per fate, and each weapon needs 13 or 12 stones thats 26 fates assuming 50% drop rate.

It does.

Source: I ground out all 13 jobs worth of Atma in a few hours.

It took me several days of grinding FATEs in Anemos to get my single Axe done. Especially when the lower elemental level FATEs give pathetic rewards and FATEs like Pizzazuzu take excessive amounts of time to make spawn and then complete.

3) new boss fates with new monsters and new mechanics are not old content. a new dungeon is not old content just because it is a dungeon.

So you're saying that Eureka isn't necessary for new content.

Isn't that undermining the argument that Eureka is good if it can be recreated without creating a whole new zone to put into the game?

4) except at this point they already have many flashy weapons, any new relic will no longer be the flashiest weapon, they got 2 flashy zodiac 3-4 flashy anima, 3 versions of flashy eureka, flashy primal weapons, flashy potd weapons. Im not even using the final eureka weapon's model. If you want to do regular stormblood content for a weapon, tomestone fills that, if you want to get a flashy weapon, its like a 1/12 chance whatever new relic is your flavour of flashy, only to get lower as more weapons are released.

This again undermines your argument.

Why bother even having Eureka if the main content tied to it isn't unique. Heck, you're not even using the primary reward for the content.

Also, me having flashy weapons doesn't mean I don't want to get the new flashy weapon that's part of the new expansion.

I collect Relic weapons, I'm in the process of collecting all the Zodiac and Anima weapons and if Eureka wasn't such butt content that to do efficiently requires FATE Trains, I'd be collecting all the Eureka weapons too.

Tomestone weapons to not fill this same role. Spending a couple of weeks Tomestone caps on a weapon that's boring and not flashy is not the same as undertaking an epic grind to build a flashy cool weapon alongside the story.

5) progressing raids is one flavor of content that is already well rewarded, why would they put even more rewards of the same type in the same content? doing regular dungeon content is already the meat and potatoes. It makes sense to reward something different equally, to get people to whom the other two methods do not appeal.

Because the reward in question is one that is used by all kinds of players. As such, it should be implemented so that all kinds of players can work on it.

The primary reason to go to Eureka is to earn the Relic weapon. The secondary reasons are other items such as hairstyles and mounts. The tertiary reason is the story for the place.

This is not good design. Since it's tying stuff that should be for everyone, provided they put the effort into grinding it, behind specific content that's trying to aim for other players.

6) light is obtained also through effeciently killing specific monsters, as well as fates, if pretty ineffecient to do nothing while waiting for fates for light. Basically by mastering the knowledge and abilities of eureka, you see greater gains. strategy and planning, and knowledge of the monsters and area is a key part of the design of eureka, and thus timely relic completion. And fighting one dragon is more entertaining than spamming tam tara solo to me.

None of this seems unique.

Also, you didn't need to spam Tam-Tara solo. You could have done Alexander, Coils of Bahamut, EX Trials etc. To get Light.

Just because you CHOSE to farm Tam-Tara solo, didn't mean you HAD to. Again, previous Relics had CHOICE in much of their grinds. You could do any Tomestone earning content to get the currency to buy items. You could do FATEs, Dungeons or Raids (Both soloing old ones like Tam-Tara, or grouping for current content ones) to earn Light. Literally, you could FATE Train just like Eureka to earn your light.

the fates in eureka require partipation, unless your party carries you.

Which they often will because it's often part of a FATE Train.

aoe spam killing is not effecient for anything in eureka, other than spawning low level fates, its extremely common in dungeons though. Most of my eureka progress was with 2-4 players, so my personal contribution was always important to progress.

Meanwhile, in order to maximize efficiency, you FATE Train. Which waters down personal contribution.

Again, here you chose to do 2-4 player content instead of taking the most efficient path so you had more fun. Meanwhile, you previously chose to take the most efficient route with previous Relics and went Tam-Tara farming and had less fun.

This is nothing new.

Also, I'm not against Eureka as a whole. If it can be created simultaneously to other content without diverting resources away from things I like to do, then it literally has no impact on me.

Unless they tie the expansions Relic behind it. Which is an idea that can sod off.

If you just want to earn something at the end of your Eureka content, why not put something else there? Maybe something that would actually do something in Eureka (Since given the item level sync, upgrading your Relic does nothing)

Heck, if you're doing Eureka for the content why not give Eureka a boring old 390 item level weapon at the end? I mean, "its like a 1/12 chance whatever new relic is your flavour of flashy, only to get lower as more weapons are released" right?

[Physic]

So would any overworld content that was required to do Relics.

Literally, we have The Lochs which is a level 69-70 zone where ALL FATEs there are level 69.



Heck, if you're doing Eureka for the content why not give Eureka a boring old 390 item level weapon at the end? I mean, "its like a 1/12 chance whatever new relic is your flavour of flashy, only to get lower as more weapons are released" right?

most of your feedback is missing something here.



how you put together something makes a big difference in its implementation. Just because you have some of the same pieces, doesnt mean the end product is the same.


the big difference with the design of eureka, is its a self contained zone where all the players have the same purpose. It crosses server and is seperate from the regular world so it has overall different rules, which changes the way the content plays out. The rules that they changed enhance the experience they are trying to create.


1)Everyone in the zone has only a few possible goals. In a regular 69 area the fates serve a different purpose. They are all part of the background and fluff of the world, the open world is mostly the places in which you do main story and side quests, or gather materials.


I have not seen a dead fate in 2-3 weeks in my time in eureka. They always get done by many people. The only time the fates dont get done is when the instance stops adding new players. This is important because most of the fates are designed such that they are hard to complete solo. The only way you can design a zone with tons of boss fates, is if the majority of people on the map are going to participate in that fate if it pops, that is not the case in the overworld.

3)monster balancing in general is different in eureka. In the overworld, most monsters are designed to be fodder, its pretty unlikely for anything to kill you unless you are extremely underlevel, and you can probably escape at all times. Eureka is designed so that most things that aggro you, are some level of threat to you, escaping enemies is more difficult, and more dangerous. The focus is more on fighting stronger monsters, than blowing up weak enemies. you will get more experience killing one monster 4 levels higher as a group, than killing 5 weaker monsters in aoe death spam.


if my 2-4 players was the inefficent way, then no one has a right to complain, i completed the entire weapon and eureka in 2 weeks, and thats when i knew nothing.





why not give it an i390 item, its mostly because i390 is given too easily for it to be a worthwhile goal for something that takes that long. I am not one of the people who says, if content is good you should do it for no gains, thats not realistic, and doesnt motivate players. its also not the way MMOs generally work.

[Kalise]

the big difference with the design of eureka, is its a self contained zone where all the players have the same purpose. It crosses server and is seperate from the regular world so it has overall different rules, which changes the way the content plays out. The rules that they changed enhance the experience they are trying to create.

This is nothing unique.

They could have had a special zone in the overworld that has the same effect. I mean, they're working on adding more cross-server support in ShB. Having a cross-server zone would have been a perfect idea to lead up to that.

1)Everyone in the zone has only a few possible goals. In a regular 69 area the fates serve a different purpose. They are all part of the background and fluff of the world, the open world is mostly the places in which you do main story and side quests, or gather materials.

So far.

There's literally nothing stopping them from adding in a max level zone specifically designed for max level players to do max level content. Outside them being less able to stick arbitrary ilevel syncs onto the content to bloat out the content so that it's more annoying to do alone or in smaller groups.

I have not seen a dead fate in 2-3 weeks in my time in eureka. They always get done by many people. The only time the fates dont get done is when the instance stops adding new players. This is important because most of the fates are designed such that they are hard to complete solo. The only way you can design a zone with tons of boss fates, is if the majority of people on the map are going to participate in that fate if it pops, that is not the case in the overworld.

Shocking that when overworld is not designed with any overarching reward for playing in, that no-one is found playing in it.

Again, if Eureka rewards were tied behind overworld content. People would be playing the overworld content just the same. Farming FATEs just as they do in Eureka.

3)monster balancing in general is different in eureka. In the overworld, most monsters are designed to be fodder, its pretty unlikely for anything to kill you unless you are extremely underlevel, and you can probably escape at all times. Eureka is designed so that most things that aggro you, are some level of threat to you, escaping enemies is more difficult, and more dangerous. The focus is more on fighting stronger monsters, than blowing up weak enemies. you will get more experience killing one monster 4 levels higher as a group, than killing 5 weaker monsters in aoe death spam.

Again, nothing that couldn't be adjusted in a specific open world zone.

Also, I beg to differ about "More experience killing one monster 4 levels higher than killing 5 weaker monsters". My experience is that killing monsters at your level, thus will be the minimum level required for Chain bonus > killing monsters higher level.

Experience gains from increasing levels doesn't really scale very well with how much longer they take to kill.

To say nothing about how party level differences can also reduce experience gains, which Eureka has a lot of because even though everyone is level 70, they decided to put in an independent leveling system because...?

Like, the only reason I can see for independent leveling system is to punish people when they die a lot more. As well as make it harder for people to participate in content when they first enter a particular zone. Even more so when even more arbitrary gates are put into place like being unable to use a mount or attune to aetherytes before specific levels.

why not give it an i390 item, its mostly because i390 is given too easily for it to be a worthwhile goal for something that takes that long. I am not one of the people who says, if content is good you should do it for no gains, thats not realistic, and doesnt motivate players. its also not the way MMOs generally work.

What you're saying is that the content just isn't good enough or actually liked enough to stand on its own merits.

That it needs such a highly valued reward to actually entice people into playing it.

Since, the argument you're making is that Eureka is supposed to be content for those that don't like Raids/Dungeons to be able to do something. Surely, the fact that Eureka is a way to get full ilevel 390 gear, just like Raids/Dungeons would mean that all these people who don't like Raids/Dungeons can have end-game content where they can farm up gear just like Raiders/Dungeoneers? (You know, outside the fact that Eureka throws TONS of Tomestones at you for doing FATEs so you can easily buy Tomestone gear...)

Or is it just the fact that Eureka makes gear worthless because ilevel syncs that would make people not care to grind it out for a set of plain old ilevel 390 gear?

So they require specifically Relic weapons to make the content appealing enough to stick with? If that's the case then it means Eureka just isn't worthwhile content to make if people don't like to do it.

[Alucard135]

I have not seen a dead fate in 2-3 weeks in my time in eureka. They always get done by many people. The only time the fates dont get done is when the instance stops adding new players. This is important because most of the fates are designed such that they are hard to complete solo. The only way you can design a zone with tons of boss fates, is if the majority of people on the map are going to participate in that fate if it pops, that is not the case in the overworld.

Even with a locked instance, when a fate pops up, people still rush to do it, since it scales to the number of players in the instance. I remember one time in Pyros when only 30 players were left and skoll popped up. It was a tough fight, since a lot of the players had no idea of his in/out AOE attacks so a lot got one shot by them. Only my team (which didn't have a tank) and Mr. Happy's team were able to survive the entire fight (and thanks to him for managing to keep his tank alive against Skoll and his adds). The bunny fates are also easily soloable when you're the only one in the instance due to how low it scales.