Please no more Eureka!

[Alucard135]

…

Again, as I said before, Pagos is not the entirety of Eureka. If those people decided to only chain dragons for light for 8hrs a day for a week, then that’s their choice. Others alternated between different mobs like the chimeras and not just dragons and found out that the light gain increases much more (which is why I got my RDM in a week without having to spend 8hrs a day). As for my DRK weapon, the solo farming method with the nerfs made it so easy I got it all 32 lights easily in a single day. This is what makes Eureka fun, you have alternative ways to do something. As for the older relics, there’s really nothing except “do duty X” to gain light. Those who want to finish quickly, just did savage to get over with it.

[Leanna]

No one points a gun at your head and tells you "Go do Savage ONLY!" That it is fast doesn't mean it is the only way. I did the DRK relic recently, I only wanted the Sharpened Guillotine but I did up until Lux because why not? And I did Cronus while doing dungeons for BLU skills for some friends.

That was recently, back then I did Savage for MNK and SCH because I wanted them asap, but for the MCH relic I did other stuff because I didn't want to rush it.

You know, because one option is faster doesn't mean it is the only, and that depends of what people wants to do and how. More options is never bad, reduce everything to one option is.

Again, as I said before, Pagos is not the entirety of Eureka. If those people decided to only chain dragons for light for 8hrs a day for a week, then that’s their choice. Others alternated between different mobs like the chimeras and not just dragons and found out that the light gain increases much more (which is why I got my RDM in a week without having to spend 8hrs a day). As for my DRK weapon, the solo farming method with the nerfs made it so easy I got it all 32 lights easily in a single day. This is what makes Eureka fun, you have alternative ways to do something. As for the older relics, there’s really nothing except “do duty X” to gain light. Those who want to finish quickly, just did savage to get over with it.

Yes, that's now post-nerf. But it's exactly the same grind Dragons, Chimeras or whatever, they aren't more than dummies that will stand still while you hit them, the options in Eureka is "Dummy A, Dummy B, Dummy C or Fates". And what solo method? Abuse an exploit?

Who wanted to finish quickly, yes, not for everyone.

[Physic]

So would any overworld content that was required to do Relics.

Literally, we have The Lochs which is a level 69-70 zone where ALL FATEs there are level 69.



Heck, if you're doing Eureka for the content why not give Eureka a boring old 390 item level weapon at the end? I mean, "its like a 1/12 chance whatever new relic is your flavour of flashy, only to get lower as more weapons are released" right?

most of your feedback is missing something here.



how you put together something makes a big difference in its implementation. Just because you have some of the same pieces, doesnt mean the end product is the same.


the big difference with the design of eureka, is its a self contained zone where all the players have the same purpose. It crosses server and is seperate from the regular world so it has overall different rules, which changes the way the content plays out. The rules that they changed enhance the experience they are trying to create.


1)Everyone in the zone has only a few possible goals. In a regular 69 area the fates serve a different purpose. They are all part of the background and fluff of the world, the open world is mostly the places in which you do main story and side quests, or gather materials.


I have not seen a dead fate in 2-3 weeks in my time in eureka. They always get done by many people. The only time the fates dont get done is when the instance stops adding new players. This is important because most of the fates are designed such that they are hard to complete solo. The only way you can design a zone with tons of boss fates, is if the majority of people on the map are going to participate in that fate if it pops, that is not the case in the overworld.

3)monster balancing in general is different in eureka. In the overworld, most monsters are designed to be fodder, its pretty unlikely for anything to kill you unless you are extremely underlevel, and you can probably escape at all times. Eureka is designed so that most things that aggro you, are some level of threat to you, escaping enemies is more difficult, and more dangerous. The focus is more on fighting stronger monsters, than blowing up weak enemies. you will get more experience killing one monster 4 levels higher as a group, than killing 5 weaker monsters in aoe death spam.


if my 2-4 players was the inefficent way, then no one has a right to complain, i completed the entire weapon and eureka in 2 weeks, and thats when i knew nothing.





why not give it an i390 item, its mostly because i390 is given too easily for it to be a worthwhile goal for something that takes that long. I am not one of the people who says, if content is good you should do it for no gains, thats not realistic, and doesnt motivate players. its also not the way MMOs generally work.

[Physic]

also kalise, getting extra weapons is even easier, i could probably almost complete another weapon in a few days after the first with extra mats, and each weapon after that would not require a massive grind. (in comparison to my second atma relic, or anima relic)


once you are max level, have unlocked logograms, all thats left is the minimum fate requirements, and the light farms, both of which requires similar or less effort than the current nerfed zodiac and anima grinds. anima get 275 sands, and are really not that drastic.


and yeah i go back to anima to help friends level now, for kicks, i dont even have another level 70 that i care about that much currently.

[Kalise]

the big difference with the design of eureka, is its a self contained zone where all the players have the same purpose. It crosses server and is seperate from the regular world so it has overall different rules, which changes the way the content plays out. The rules that they changed enhance the experience they are trying to create.

This is nothing unique.

They could have had a special zone in the overworld that has the same effect. I mean, they're working on adding more cross-server support in ShB. Having a cross-server zone would have been a perfect idea to lead up to that.

1)Everyone in the zone has only a few possible goals. In a regular 69 area the fates serve a different purpose. They are all part of the background and fluff of the world, the open world is mostly the places in which you do main story and side quests, or gather materials.

So far.

There's literally nothing stopping them from adding in a max level zone specifically designed for max level players to do max level content. Outside them being less able to stick arbitrary ilevel syncs onto the content to bloat out the content so that it's more annoying to do alone or in smaller groups.

I have not seen a dead fate in 2-3 weeks in my time in eureka. They always get done by many people. The only time the fates dont get done is when the instance stops adding new players. This is important because most of the fates are designed such that they are hard to complete solo. The only way you can design a zone with tons of boss fates, is if the majority of people on the map are going to participate in that fate if it pops, that is not the case in the overworld.

Shocking that when overworld is not designed with any overarching reward for playing in, that no-one is found playing in it.

Again, if Eureka rewards were tied behind overworld content. People would be playing the overworld content just the same. Farming FATEs just as they do in Eureka.

3)monster balancing in general is different in eureka. In the overworld, most monsters are designed to be fodder, its pretty unlikely for anything to kill you unless you are extremely underlevel, and you can probably escape at all times. Eureka is designed so that most things that aggro you, are some level of threat to you, escaping enemies is more difficult, and more dangerous. The focus is more on fighting stronger monsters, than blowing up weak enemies. you will get more experience killing one monster 4 levels higher as a group, than killing 5 weaker monsters in aoe death spam.

Again, nothing that couldn't be adjusted in a specific open world zone.

Also, I beg to differ about "More experience killing one monster 4 levels higher than killing 5 weaker monsters". My experience is that killing monsters at your level, thus will be the minimum level required for Chain bonus > killing monsters higher level.

Experience gains from increasing levels doesn't really scale very well with how much longer they take to kill.

To say nothing about how party level differences can also reduce experience gains, which Eureka has a lot of because even though everyone is level 70, they decided to put in an independent leveling system because...?

Like, the only reason I can see for independent leveling system is to punish people when they die a lot more. As well as make it harder for people to participate in content when they first enter a particular zone. Even more so when even more arbitrary gates are put into place like being unable to use a mount or attune to aetherytes before specific levels.

why not give it an i390 item, its mostly because i390 is given too easily for it to be a worthwhile goal for something that takes that long. I am not one of the people who says, if content is good you should do it for no gains, thats not realistic, and doesnt motivate players. its also not the way MMOs generally work.

What you're saying is that the content just isn't good enough or actually liked enough to stand on its own merits.

That it needs such a highly valued reward to actually entice people into playing it.

Since, the argument you're making is that Eureka is supposed to be content for those that don't like Raids/Dungeons to be able to do something. Surely, the fact that Eureka is a way to get full ilevel 390 gear, just like Raids/Dungeons would mean that all these people who don't like Raids/Dungeons can have end-game content where they can farm up gear just like Raiders/Dungeoneers? (You know, outside the fact that Eureka throws TONS of Tomestones at you for doing FATEs so you can easily buy Tomestone gear...)

Or is it just the fact that Eureka makes gear worthless because ilevel syncs that would make people not care to grind it out for a set of plain old ilevel 390 gear?

So they require specifically Relic weapons to make the content appealing enough to stick with? If that's the case then it means Eureka just isn't worthwhile content to make if people don't like to do it.

[Alucard135]

I have not seen a dead fate in 2-3 weeks in my time in eureka. They always get done by many people. The only time the fates dont get done is when the instance stops adding new players. This is important because most of the fates are designed such that they are hard to complete solo. The only way you can design a zone with tons of boss fates, is if the majority of people on the map are going to participate in that fate if it pops, that is not the case in the overworld.

Even with a locked instance, when a fate pops up, people still rush to do it, since it scales to the number of players in the instance. I remember one time in Pyros when only 30 players were left and skoll popped up. It was a tough fight, since a lot of the players had no idea of his in/out AOE attacks so a lot got one shot by them. Only my team (which didn't have a tank) and Mr. Happy's team were able to survive the entire fight (and thanks to him for managing to keep his tank alive against Skoll and his adds). The bunny fates are also easily soloable when you're the only one in the instance due to how low it scales.

[xbahax92]

No one points a gun at your head and tells you "Go do Savage ONLY!" That it is fast doesn't mean it is the only way. I did the DRK relic recently, I only wanted the Sharpened Guillotine but I did up until Lux because why not? And I did Cronus while doing dungeons for BLU skills for some friends.

That was recently, back then I did Savage for MNK and SCH because I wanted them asap, but for the MCH relic I did other stuff because I didn't want to rush it.

You know, because one option is faster doesn't mean it is the only, and that depends of what people wants to do and how. More options is never bad, reduce everything to one option is.

But nobody is telling you to go grind for dragons either. Even if you do daily something, you'll progress your relic and also get some tomestones (which should cover your time doing daily roulettes)

Im not saying Eureka is perfect, if you read my initial post, you'll see that I also agree, Eureka needs more improvements. Yet again, Eureka-like content can be fun - if done right.

And yes, I agree relic shouldnt be inside next Eureka. It would be more fun having multiple choices to get tokens, tomes, materials through multiple ways - including maybe Eureka but not entirely gating.

The only thing I can imagine is, that Eureka was a good step forward. A step away from Diadem and I do hope the Dev Team truly learned how to handle such content and will handle in future. Sometimes even Devs need to gather experience. And I do think its wrong to tell them to stop trying new things.

[TalithaSolarien]

I just wish so many people didn't just stand around in eureka drooling with their mouths open waiting for the bunny fate to respawn. Then they book it to the NMs whenever they spawn without ever lifting a finger to help spawn.

The bunny fates were a mistake.

Assuming you are talking about Pyros you have to understand why people are camping the bunny FATE (only the southern one, nobody in his right mind does the northern one): it's the only reliable way of gathering logos boxes. NM's drop them too rarely and killing Sprites at your level is extremly dangerous unless to happen to be in a group of players at the same level.

The whole logos drop system was badly designed.

[Alucard135]

But nobody is telling you to go grind for dragons either. Even if you do daily something, you'll progress your relic and also get some tomestones (which should cover your time doing daily roulettes)

Trying to reason with someone who didn't complete the content and is insisting on doing it the worst way possible won't get you anywhere.

The only thing I can imagine is, that Eureka was a good step forward. A step away from Diadem and I do hope the Dev Team truly learned how to handle such content and will handle in future. Sometimes even Devs need to gather experience. And I do think its wrong to tell them to stop trying new things.

Yes, it is and that's what Yoshi P said yesterday in his message in BA thread.

This is FFXIV Producer and Director Yoshida again.
As Nakagawa has stated above, as a content, Eureka has been a challenge for the FFXIV team, following on from the Diadem.

FFXIV’s base gameplay is very important to us, and in order to have as many players as possible enjoy themselves, we take care not to introduce unnecessary stress to content. On the other hand, we also believe there is payoff to be had, a sense of accomplishment, at the end of sustained effort and heightened tension. This is a good kind of stress, and it’s the driving concept behind content such the Diadem and Eureka, which aim to break outside the FFXIV box.

As a result, there may be situations like Hydatos, where feedback diverges greatly depending on region, and issues arise that are beyond our anticipation. But we’ll learn from this and strive to continue delivering new ways to play.

With the 5.x series of patches, we’ll be trying something new again, but in the meantime, we’ll continue making adjustments not only to Hydatos, but to Eureka at large. Thank you for continued support.

If they're planning on making adjustments to the entire zones, I hope they add the logos system to them.

[Kohdo]

I'd really like to see the 5.0 relic not involve Eureka-style content whatsoever. I'm hoping that their announcement about "more Eureka style content for 5.0" meant adding more stuff to existing Eureka zones to keep it somewhat relevant, not adding another expansion's worth of Eureka tiers and putting another low-effort relic at the end of it. Seriously, i've only just got my Pagos weapon but will probably stop there because the final relic models look like garbage and aren't worth the grind.

No more eureka.

I stopped the content during anemos, the premise was draining and the grind crushing. It physically hurt people.


I think people should care about that last point a little more. The grind was so bad people hurt their hands doing it. Even if you patch that out that is a negative experience that isn’t—shouldn’t—-be brushed off.

As much as I dislike Eureka post-Anemos, players have to use some self-discipline and decide when to call it quits. Yes, the content is a grind. No, you don't have to do it for hours on end. It's not the devs' fault if some people physically hurt themselves because they decided to play for unhealthily long periods of time.