Please no more Eureka!

[xbahax92]

No one points a gun at your head and tells you "Go do Savage ONLY!" That it is fast doesn't mean it is the only way. I did the DRK relic recently, I only wanted the Sharpened Guillotine but I did up until Lux because why not? And I did Cronus while doing dungeons for BLU skills for some friends.

That was recently, back then I did Savage for MNK and SCH because I wanted them asap, but for the MCH relic I did other stuff because I didn't want to rush it.

You know, because one option is faster doesn't mean it is the only, and that depends of what people wants to do and how. More options is never bad, reduce everything to one option is.

But nobody is telling you to go grind for dragons either. Even if you do daily something, you'll progress your relic and also get some tomestones (which should cover your time doing daily roulettes)

Im not saying Eureka is perfect, if you read my initial post, you'll see that I also agree, Eureka needs more improvements. Yet again, Eureka-like content can be fun - if done right.

And yes, I agree relic shouldnt be inside next Eureka. It would be more fun having multiple choices to get tokens, tomes, materials through multiple ways - including maybe Eureka but not entirely gating.

The only thing I can imagine is, that Eureka was a good step forward. A step away from Diadem and I do hope the Dev Team truly learned how to handle such content and will handle in future. Sometimes even Devs need to gather experience. And I do think its wrong to tell them to stop trying new things.

[Alucard135]

But nobody is telling you to go grind for dragons either. Even if you do daily something, you'll progress your relic and also get some tomestones (which should cover your time doing daily roulettes)

Trying to reason with someone who didn't complete the content and is insisting on doing it the worst way possible won't get you anywhere.

The only thing I can imagine is, that Eureka was a good step forward. A step away from Diadem and I do hope the Dev Team truly learned how to handle such content and will handle in future. Sometimes even Devs need to gather experience. And I do think its wrong to tell them to stop trying new things.

Yes, it is and that's what Yoshi P said yesterday in his message in BA thread.

This is FFXIV Producer and Director Yoshida again.
As Nakagawa has stated above, as a content, Eureka has been a challenge for the FFXIV team, following on from the Diadem.

FFXIV’s base gameplay is very important to us, and in order to have as many players as possible enjoy themselves, we take care not to introduce unnecessary stress to content. On the other hand, we also believe there is payoff to be had, a sense of accomplishment, at the end of sustained effort and heightened tension. This is a good kind of stress, and it’s the driving concept behind content such the Diadem and Eureka, which aim to break outside the FFXIV box.

As a result, there may be situations like Hydatos, where feedback diverges greatly depending on region, and issues arise that are beyond our anticipation. But we’ll learn from this and strive to continue delivering new ways to play.

With the 5.x series of patches, we’ll be trying something new again, but in the meantime, we’ll continue making adjustments not only to Hydatos, but to Eureka at large. Thank you for continued support.

If they're planning on making adjustments to the entire zones, I hope they add the logos system to them.

[Kalise]

I can only assume that the "Enhanced Socialization" is down the the fact that, because literally all Eureka is, is FATE Trains, you're often grouped up with people and many people are basically AFK because there's so many groups there that 60% of the people in the Train can't really do anything before the enemies have been insta-blown up even if they wanted to... So they can stand around and chat while waiting for the NM's to spawn.

While, in other content, such as Atma farm, you had to be constantly moving with the train to the next FATEs because they would be popping at random. Not much time to sit around on your hands and just chat with people while others are busy spawning FATEs for you.

It is curious about how previous Relics are considered bad farms when Eureka is literally just one of the worst parts of the previous relics farms over and over. FATE Train to then be able to FATE Train to then move onto FATE TRAIN. Sure, farming "Old Content" was less fun than doing new stuff... But is that really a big difference when the new stuff gets old pretty fast because you're farming it 100's of times because that's all you have to do?

Like, as far as I can tell, the only major issue with Atma farming was the RNG for getting the drops. Had that system been replaced by Eureka Crystals. What part of the previous Relic farms would be considered bad? The part where for Light Farming you could choose to be boring and spam Tam-Tara? Or you could get groups to run current content/raids for light (Or if you wanted, you could FATE Train still...)? The part where, you played whatever part of the game you enjoyed to earn Tomestones to buy the stuff you need?

I don't get how a multiple stage of activities is somehow worse than just doing the same thing over and over? Other than, yes, initial drop rates on Atma sucked and RNG meant that you could farm for ages and still have no progress. But that's easily fixed, as shown by the fact that the system has changed for Eureka because Crystals instead of Atma pieces...

That said, honestly, I still wish that they'd make Relic weapons have multiple ways of completing each stage. So you don't get stuck on the "FATE Train" stage where you just grind FATEs until your eyes bleed, or have to farm old dungeons for Light because that's the only way to get it. But you have a choice of different activities that you decide to do. That way you could either farm your preferred method (I.e. If you like FATE Trains, you go farm FATEs. If you like Dungeon Spam, you go farm Dungeons. If you like Crafting, you go craft a bunch) or you could just mix it up for variety do a bit of this and a bit of that so you don't get burnt out on grinding the same thing as easily but still work on your Relic.

[Physic]

I can only assume that the "Enhanced Socialization" is down the the fact that, because literally all Eureka is, is FATE Trains, you're often grouped up with people and many people are basically AFK because there's so many groups there that 60% of the people in the Train can't really do anything before the enemies have been insta-blown up even if they wanted to... So they can stand around and chat while waiting for the NM's to spawn.

--edited for char limit--


it up for variety do a bit of this and a bit of that so you don't get burnt out on grinding the same thing as easily but still work on your Relic.

eureka actually designs new fates with more interesting monsters. serkets crazy wild aoe spam, penethesia explosions, teleports, to eye of the storm. louhi's no marker positional fighting.
Then you have logograms which give you new, powerful, role breaking abilities. you can finally be a monk who isnt made of paper, or do 1000% damage by charging yourself, or sacrifice your life, become a dps whm, or a classic pld.

the social aspect comes in because people have shared purpose in eureka, progress
through the content and progress on weapons and gear. Many people are excited when pene pops, with a guaranteed drop for your weapon progress, and the shared experience of danger trying to get there, even for max level players. I am not saying its a super tight brotherhood, but its more connection than the level 50 relic hunter and the level 5 newbie doing the lower la noscea fate.

also, you need to do less fates in eureka than in atma farming, and it actually serves a dual purpose of leveling you up effeciently. I mostly did fates to progress in eureka, and ended up with enough crystals to progress.

and i dont think the relic should be something you get by doing whatever you feel like. i like it tied to new content that bends the ffxiv rules. there are 3 top end weapons that are all in the same class roughly. tomestone weapon, savage weapon, and relic. for what you are talking about, the tomestone weapon fits. the relic previously was just a tomestone weapon with extra old content grinds added to it.

id be all for having more top level weapons created from different content, but i think they want to limit the amount of top level items, to funnel people into content. tomestone for your basic ffxiv participation over time, savage for beating the most difficult content. And relic, which with eureka, is tied to some new off the wall content.

mostly i like the eureka content because it required playing my level 70 class in many different new encounters, with new abilities, and rewarded smart/effecient team work, in different ways than ffxiv usually has done.
I am looking forward to future creative ways play top level charachters, and it will be sad when eureka becomes dead content, logograms are pretty cool.

[Kalise]

eureka actually designs new fates with more interesting monsters. serkets crazy wild aoe spam, penethesia explosions, teleports, to eye of the storm. louhi's no marker positional fighting.

Which are unique to Eureka because?

They could literally design FATEs like that in the open world that you have to do for Relic quests. Much like with the 2 Relic Trials from ARR.

I mean, they already have Raid FATEs that no-one cares about... Give those interesting monsters and mechanics and tie them to Relics if that's all you care about.

Then you have logograms which give you new, powerful, role breaking abilities. you can finally be a monk who isnt made of paper, or do 1000% damage by charging yourself, or sacrifice your life, become a dps whm, or a classic pld.

But... I play my character to play my character.

Which is a sentiment regarding why old Relic FATE farms sucked because you'd sync down and not rely on all your skills (Also, become massively OP because syncing keeps you significantly above content in terms of power levels)

the social aspect comes in because people have shared purpose in eureka, progress
through the content and progress on weapons and gear. Many people are excited when pene pops, with a guaranteed drop for your weapon progress, and the shared experience of danger trying to get there, even for max level players.

How is it any different to doing FATE Trains in literally any other part of the game?

Heck, I experienced this just leveling back in Coerthas Central Highlands. No Relic farming, just groups of people banding together to level 35-40ish. Including actually fighting the Raid FATE there.

It was literally exactly like Eureka.

also, you need to do less fates in eureka than in atma farming, and it actually serves a dual purpose of leveling you up effeciently.

I already addressed the fact that they could have altered the items required for Relic farming from Atma to Crystals to make it have less FATEs farmed.

To say nothing of the drop rates changing, like how current Atma requires a fraction of the FATEs to get the Atma drops for ALL 13 JOBS than it does to even progress 1 weapon through Anemos, let alone getting through Pagos/Hydratos.

Also, "Leveling Up efficiently" if you mean, it isn't absolute garbage like chaining mobs is, sure.

My time spent leveling in Eureka has been mostly from Challenge Logs, despite spending hours farming FATEs throughout the week...

i dont think the relic should be something you get by doing whatever you feel like. i like it tied to new content that bends the ffxiv rules.

But why? Why not have new content that you can opt to do and if you don't like it you can still work on it?

Especially if the "New" content isn't new at all and is just the SAME FATE FARMING that has existed in the game since 2.0?

the relic previously was just a tomestone weapon with extra old content grinds added to it.

Extra old content grinds added to it... You mean like FATE Farming? Oh wait...

id be all for having more top level weapons created from different content, but i think they want to limit the amount of top level items, to funnel people into content. tomestone for your basic ffxiv participation over time, savage for beating the most difficult content. And relic, which with eureka, is tied to some new off the wall content.

Or they can be actually competent and let people work towards the Relic weapon, the one that you work on continuously throughout an expansion, the one that up until SB had a story attached to it that you went through and the one that has the shiniest (Quite literally) and most extravagant design to it?

Why create 3 different weapons (With the Crafted ones being crappy imitations of an end-game weapon especially with the unupgraded versions being better than the higher ilevel exchanged ones because lel overmelding) when you could just have separate ways to work towards the same flashy weapon?

So that people can play the content they like in order to do the massive grind that is associated with the cool looks and (Usually) story that is the Relic weapon.

mostly i like the eureka content because it required playing my level 70 class in many different new encounters

You mean like progressing through raids do?

and rewarded smart/effecient team work, in different ways than ffxiv usually has done.

What? You're rewarded in Eureka for FATE Trains, just like you have been since 2.0.

Where you don't actually have to do much, just be in a party and exist at a FATE and passively get gold tier rewards.

Then you get rewarded for farming light. Much like with the previous 2 relics. Only this time you can't get light from multiple sources of gameplay (Like Raids, Dungeons and high level FATEs)... That's not new and different, that's just the same.

I am looking forward to future creative ways play top level charachters, and it will be sad when eureka becomes dead content, logograms are pretty cool.

I too am looking forward to creative ways to play max level characters. I hope it doesn't take the form of just FATE Trains ad infinitum.

Since, while I like the occasional train, I also like you know, actually feeling like I have an impact on the content I'm doing. Where I'm not just hitting for 0.01% of some NM's max health per hit alongside 100 other people. Where I'm not just rushing to group up enemies so that they can get AoE'd down by the classes that have good AoE damage.

Where I can actually play my main class, in my main role (Warrior, as a Tank) without it just being relegated to being a subpar DPS because there's 30 other Tanks and only 1 target that actually needs tanking.

I much prefer more focused alternate content. As I find it more engaging and fun, even if it's more outside the box, such as PotD rather than strictly Dungeon/Raids.

[Physic]

Which are unique to Eureka because?

They could literally design FATEs like that in the open world that you have to do for Relic quests. Much like with the 2 Relic Trials from ARR.

--edited for char--
.

1) fates are not unique to eureka, but eureka gathers all the people who need to do these fates as a starting point, open world fates in ffxiv overworld are not post max level content, 60% of the players in northern thanalan are not there for chimera, and a max level charachter gets little benefit doing this fate.

2)current atma farm does not require less fates for all 13 jobs, its not guaranteed per fate, and each weapon needs 13 or 12 stones thats 26 fates assuming 50% drop rate. per weapon, the anemos step requires 357 anemos crystals on average. thats going to be overall a similar level of fates. the difference is, this is the starting point, instead of the nerfed grind 3 years after the weapon is released, and the anemos weapon takes you from 290-355 for 25-30 fates, whereas the original relic takes you from 80 to 90 for that grind. and lets be honest it was way more fates. atma farm is not even close to 1/3 of the relic process.

3) new boss fates with new monsters and new mechanics are not old content. a new dungeon is not old content just because it is a dungeon.

4) except at this point they already have many flashy weapons, any new relic will no longer be the flashiest weapon, they got 2 flashy zodiac 3-4 flashy anima, 3 versions of flashy eureka, flashy primal weapons, flashy potd weapons. Im not even using the final eureka weapon's model. If you want to do regular stormblood content for a weapon, tomestone fills that, if you want to get a flashy weapon, its like a 1/12 chance whatever new relic is your flavour of flashy, only to get lower as more weapons are released.

5) progressing raids is one flavor of content that is already well rewarded, why would they put even more rewards of the same type in the same content? doing regular dungeon content is already the meat and potatoes. It makes sense to reward something different equally, to get people to whom the other two methods do not appeal.

6) light is obtained also through effeciently killing specific monsters, as well as fates, if pretty ineffecient to do nothing while waiting for fates for light. Basically by mastering the knowledge and abilities of eureka, you see greater gains. strategy and planning, and knowledge of the monsters and area is a key part of the design of eureka, and thus timely relic completion. And fighting one dragon is more entertaining than spamming tam tara solo to me.


the fates in eureka require partipation, unless your party carries you.

aoe spam killing is not effecient for anything in eureka, other than spawning low level fates, its extremely common in dungeons though. Most of my eureka progress was with 2-4 players, so my personal contribution was always important to progress.

[Kalise]

1) fates are not unique to eureka, but eureka gathers all the people who need to do these fates as a starting point, open world fates in ffxiv overworld are not post max level content, 60% of the players in northern thanalan are not there for chimera, and a max level charachter gets little benefit doing this fate.

So would any overworld content that was required to do Relics.

Literally, we have The Lochs which is a level 69-70 zone where ALL FATEs there are level 69.

I honestly don't see how this is drastically different to Eureka and its content that is based around level 70's... That also have secondary Elemental Levels causing a rift between players... Magia board being restricted behind Elemental Levels in Anemos... And Lologram obtaining...

2)current atma farm does not require less fates for all 13 jobs, its not guaranteed per fate, and each weapon needs 13 or 12 stones thats 26 fates assuming 50% drop rate.

It does.

Source: I ground out all 13 jobs worth of Atma in a few hours.

It took me several days of grinding FATEs in Anemos to get my single Axe done. Especially when the lower elemental level FATEs give pathetic rewards and FATEs like Pizzazuzu take excessive amounts of time to make spawn and then complete.

3) new boss fates with new monsters and new mechanics are not old content. a new dungeon is not old content just because it is a dungeon.

So you're saying that Eureka isn't necessary for new content.

Isn't that undermining the argument that Eureka is good if it can be recreated without creating a whole new zone to put into the game?

4) except at this point they already have many flashy weapons, any new relic will no longer be the flashiest weapon, they got 2 flashy zodiac 3-4 flashy anima, 3 versions of flashy eureka, flashy primal weapons, flashy potd weapons. Im not even using the final eureka weapon's model. If you want to do regular stormblood content for a weapon, tomestone fills that, if you want to get a flashy weapon, its like a 1/12 chance whatever new relic is your flavour of flashy, only to get lower as more weapons are released.

This again undermines your argument.

Why bother even having Eureka if the main content tied to it isn't unique. Heck, you're not even using the primary reward for the content.

Also, me having flashy weapons doesn't mean I don't want to get the new flashy weapon that's part of the new expansion.

I collect Relic weapons, I'm in the process of collecting all the Zodiac and Anima weapons and if Eureka wasn't such butt content that to do efficiently requires FATE Trains, I'd be collecting all the Eureka weapons too.

Tomestone weapons to not fill this same role. Spending a couple of weeks Tomestone caps on a weapon that's boring and not flashy is not the same as undertaking an epic grind to build a flashy cool weapon alongside the story.

5) progressing raids is one flavor of content that is already well rewarded, why would they put even more rewards of the same type in the same content? doing regular dungeon content is already the meat and potatoes. It makes sense to reward something different equally, to get people to whom the other two methods do not appeal.

Because the reward in question is one that is used by all kinds of players. As such, it should be implemented so that all kinds of players can work on it.

The primary reason to go to Eureka is to earn the Relic weapon. The secondary reasons are other items such as hairstyles and mounts. The tertiary reason is the story for the place.

This is not good design. Since it's tying stuff that should be for everyone, provided they put the effort into grinding it, behind specific content that's trying to aim for other players.

6) light is obtained also through effeciently killing specific monsters, as well as fates, if pretty ineffecient to do nothing while waiting for fates for light. Basically by mastering the knowledge and abilities of eureka, you see greater gains. strategy and planning, and knowledge of the monsters and area is a key part of the design of eureka, and thus timely relic completion. And fighting one dragon is more entertaining than spamming tam tara solo to me.

None of this seems unique.

Also, you didn't need to spam Tam-Tara solo. You could have done Alexander, Coils of Bahamut, EX Trials etc. To get Light.

Just because you CHOSE to farm Tam-Tara solo, didn't mean you HAD to. Again, previous Relics had CHOICE in much of their grinds. You could do any Tomestone earning content to get the currency to buy items. You could do FATEs, Dungeons or Raids (Both soloing old ones like Tam-Tara, or grouping for current content ones) to earn Light. Literally, you could FATE Train just like Eureka to earn your light.

the fates in eureka require partipation, unless your party carries you.

Which they often will because it's often part of a FATE Train.

aoe spam killing is not effecient for anything in eureka, other than spawning low level fates, its extremely common in dungeons though. Most of my eureka progress was with 2-4 players, so my personal contribution was always important to progress.

Meanwhile, in order to maximize efficiency, you FATE Train. Which waters down personal contribution.

Again, here you chose to do 2-4 player content instead of taking the most efficient path so you had more fun. Meanwhile, you previously chose to take the most efficient route with previous Relics and went Tam-Tara farming and had less fun.

This is nothing new.

Also, I'm not against Eureka as a whole. If it can be created simultaneously to other content without diverting resources away from things I like to do, then it literally has no impact on me.

Unless they tie the expansions Relic behind it. Which is an idea that can sod off.

If you just want to earn something at the end of your Eureka content, why not put something else there? Maybe something that would actually do something in Eureka (Since given the item level sync, upgrading your Relic does nothing)

Heck, if you're doing Eureka for the content why not give Eureka a boring old 390 item level weapon at the end? I mean, "its like a 1/12 chance whatever new relic is your flavour of flashy, only to get lower as more weapons are released" right?

[Leanna]

Crystals are a guaranteed drop, but when people had to farm dragons for 8h, everyday for a week because it's RNG, well...
What's the point when even clear Ultimate is faster than that. And let's not forget Eureka was exclusively made for a glamour, this is totally not worth for SE. I really prefer to do old content that otherwise will be forgotten than SE spending this much resources for a shitty glamour. There are so many things to fix in the game and actual fun content they can make if they can be arsed to that this is totally unnecessary, can only hope this was an experiment for future content rather than "Let's use everything we have to do a glamour quest instead of make actual content."

SE could make better FATEs for any other place of the game, like the "open world", no need to make an instance to start making better FATEs.

[Physic]

Crystals are a guaranteed drop, but when people had to farm dragons for 8h, everyday for a week because it's RNG, well...
What's the point when even clear Ultimate is faster than that. And let's not forget Eureka was exclusively made for a glamour, this is totally not worth for SE. I really prefer to do old content that otherwise will be forgotten than SE spending this much resources for a shitty glamour. There are so many things to fix in the game and actual fun content they can make if they can be arsed to that this is totally unnecessary, can only hope this was an experiment for future content rather than "Let's use everything we have to do a glamour quest instead of make actual content."

SE could make better FATEs for any other place of the game, like the "open world", no need to make an instance to start making better FATEs.

fun content is subjective, the greater VARIETY of content you have, the more likely you will please more players. Eureka isnt designed for glamour, its designed to be a mini world with different rules and playstyle that you cant get elsewhere in ffxiv. It has unique items and abilities that only work there which break the rules of regular ffxiv.

so eureka was a miss for you, thats fine, because you still have tons of regular dungeons, 24 mans, sidequests, main story. Eureka was meant to provide a different experience and capture an audience looking for something else. Of course that means if you wanted something similar to everything else, its not for you, and thats fine.

[Leanna]

so eureka was a miss for you, thats fine, because you still have tons of regular dungeons, 24 mans, sidequests, main story. Eureka was meant to provide a different experience and capture an audience looking for something else. Of course that means if you wanted something similar to everything else, its not for you, and thats fine.

Can you explain me how is any different do Fates in Eureka or anywhere else? Because in Diadem you had all the Fates you wanted and more. Let's not call Eureka a different experience because it isn't anything more than a mindless grind of mobs and Fates which can be found anywhere else in the game. And really, there isn't anything gamebreaking in Eureka that you can't do elsewhere, it's open world concentrated in a smaller map where mobs populate the 99% of the map and you have +10 Fates.

And for people who has all the content up to date, there is really nothing to do in the game, only PvP which has infinite replay value (which is what I'm doing atm since there is nothing to do but PvP).