Thread: WHM wishlist for 5.0

Originally Posted by Rosa_Frandlia

Stone skin and stoneskin II back. I don't know how many times in lower level dungeons I've had tanks wait for a shield before pulling bosses when I don't have one. Perhaps change Divine Bension even to Stoneskin III and keep it as is.

Originally Posted by Orbus

Why was stoneskin spells removed?
It's not like you could even use stoneskin II while in combat.
They were nothing game breaking but were nice to have.
Divine Bension is not a proper replacement.

Stoneskin was useless 99% of the time - where the only good application of Stoneskin was if weakness reduced the player's HP far enough where they needed all the eHP they could get to survive the upcoming mechanic(s). This is why it was removed from the WHM kit.

• Cure II was the same MP cost as Stoneskin
• Cure II could be cast faster than Stoneskin (OG version, the trait in HW changed that, but I'd prefer the +HP% versus the faster cast)
• Cure II generated more eHP than Stoneskin (making it the more MP efficient tool)

I wish people would stop asking for the return of Stoneskin unless they suggest changes that would make Stoneskin useful in the current iteration of the healing kits. Bringing back OG Stoneskin will not do anything about making WHM more useful.

Divine Benison is a proper replacement for Stonekin. Even though Divine Benison's HP% is less than AAR Stoneskin, it's still much better just because it's an oGCD, making it a free and on demand eHP barrier that at most clips the WHMs GCD for 1s. When it was a GCD (Stoneskin), you had to compare it to other healing tools in the kit and it was absolutely inferior to Cure II in 99% of the scenarios you could use it.

I would say Divine Benison could be argued to be worse than Stoneskin when it required the Lily to use it - but now that the Lily requirement has been removed it's a great tool for the WHM kit.

Pardon my aggressive stance - I just get tired of people wishing for a spell to return when it was something you didn't want to cast the vast majority of the time.

Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Stoneskin was useless 99% of the time - where the only good application of Stoneskin was if weakness reduced the player's HP far enough where they needed all the eHP they could get to survive the upcoming mechanic(s). This is why it was removed from the WHM kit.

• Cure II was the same MP cost as Stoneskin
• Cure II could be cast faster than Stoneskin (OG version, the trait in HW changed that, but I'd prefer the +HP% versus the faster cast)
• Cure II generated more eHP than Stoneskin (making it the more MP efficient tool)

I wish people would stop asking for the return of Stoneskin unless they suggest changes that would make Stoneskin useful in the current iteration of the healing kits. Bringing back OG Stoneskin will not do anything about making WHM more useful.

Divine Benison is a proper replacement for Stonekin. Even though Divine Benison's HP% is less than AAR Stoneskin, it's still much better just because it's an oGCD, making it a free and on demand eHP barrier that at most clips the WHMs GCD for 1s. When it was a GCD (Stoneskin), you had to compare it to other healing tools in the kit and it was absolutely inferior to Cure II in 99% of the scenarios you could use it.

I would say Divine Benison could be argued to be worse than Stoneskin when it required the Lily to use it - but now that the Lily requirement has been removed it's a great tool for the WHM kit.

Pardon my aggressive stance - I just get tired of people wishing for a spell to return when it was something you didn't want to cast the vast majority of the time.

The problem is that Divine Bension is high level at 66. Ever run a roulette and had a tank waiting for a shield or even ask for it before pulling a boss? I have. For stoneskin II, all it really did was save a cure on each person during a fight if pre-cast which was better in dungeons. Use the name Stoneskin, not the original mechanics is what I meant if you read that. Divine Bension is a good spell, but having an aoe would be nice too for those DPS that love to stand in every AOE to shield both them and the tank.

I would really like Overheal as an ability for the whitemage. For the next 10 Seconds your healing spells will overheal or something. HP will stack up until HP is lost.

and... I would love to see Shell as an ability. Reduce Magic dmg.

Originally Posted by Rosa_Frandlia

The problem is that Divine Bension is high level at 66. Ever run a roulette and had a tank waiting for a shield or even ask for it before pulling a boss? I have. For stoneskin II, all it really did was save a cure on each person during a fight if pre-cast which was better in dungeons. Use the name Stoneskin, not the original mechanics is what I meant if you read that. Divine Bension is a good spell, but having an aoe would be nice too for those DPS that love to stand in every AOE to shield both them and the tank.

On the contrary, DF tanks have an annoying habit of running out of range for Protect at the start of an instance. The average DF tank puts an enormous amount of strain on healers by over pulling before gauging the strength of the party, not using CDs, staying out of tank stance (which forces DPS to holdback, or exhaust their enmity tools prematurely). Bringing back stoneskin will not remedy any of these as they were all present when SS was around.

Incompetency isn't really a building block to implement content. WHMs shouldn't be given an AoE Benison because players stand in avoidable AoE; it should be given to help mitigate the damage that cannot be avoided. But WHM is never going to get this when two other healers can already shield the party, and have multiple means to quickly restore raid damage. As such, learning Benison @66 isn't really an issue. I know I don't have any issues performing my duty in instances prior to lv66 as a result of not having DB. After achieving max level and all your skills, running content without those skills becomes a little more cumbersome.

do people not realize that Water base aether are a No No for white mages

Originally Posted by Rosa_Frandlia

The problem is that Divine Bension is high level at 66. Ever run a roulette and had a tank waiting for a shield or even ask for it before pulling a boss? I have. For stoneskin II, all it really did was save a cure on each person during a fight if pre-cast which was better in dungeons. Use the name Stoneskin, not the original mechanics is what I meant if you read that. Divine Bension is a good spell, but having an aoe would be nice too for those DPS that love to stand in every AOE to shield both them and the tank.

I don't see an issue with Divine Benison being at level 66. If a tank is waiting for me to give them a shield, I'd politely tell them that I don't have access to one until a high level. If anything, AST has the same problem because they don't have access to a shield Sect until level 50 as well, where I would give them the same answer if they were waiting for me at 50 as well.

Stoneskin II was limited in nature and negligible in the mitigation it provided because it couldn't be used inside combat. A single Medica at the beginning of a fight won't make or break a fight.

And to your point about the rename of Divine Benison to Stoneskin III, you did also state:

Originally Posted by Rosa_Frandlia

Stone skin and stoneskin II back.

Hence why my comment came out as it did. I don't mind if Divine Benison was renamed to Stoneskin but I most certainly don't want the original Stoneskin to return.

AoE shield usable in combat would be nice, I won't disagree there.

I'm curious. To the people who want Stoneskin back, have you played WHM in ARR? Or even HW for that matter?
Stoneskin was horrible in every iteration it went though. First Stoneskin was slow to cast and have awful returns in general. Stoneskin II was simply a preshield.
HW Stoneskin was actually laughable. Like, I'm pretty sure I took that thing off my hotbar eventually.
Divine Benison is what Stoneskin should have been long time ago, and even then was at risk of being garbage until SE had the sense to take it off the Lily system.

I see absolutely no reason why anyone would want Stoneskin back when there are a million other things WHM could benefit from.