Gunbreaker starting level

[kikix12]

Because money is what SE wants, so i will not be surprised at all if they will put the quest giver in new location so everyone has to grind MSQ all the way to shadowbringers and have all 4 expansions.

But one and the other have nothing to do with each other. There are tons of games where you need an expansion to play a class that you start at level one. Basically...every single paid MMO out there without multi-class system.

Requiring expansion to use its classes is nothing new at all. Heavensward had in its own locations, yes, but they said that they learned from that when people complained about having to do all that quest grinding for a lvl30 job. And they followed through with that claim in Stormblood. There really is no money for them in doing it more difficult.

You didnt understand my point, even with the SB there are requirements to meet for springs to access the new jobs. So you have to go through all the 2.0 in order to unlock the samurai or ninja.

You don't get my point at all. What I'm saying is that THERE SHOULD NOT BE any such requirements. The only reason why there are is because Square Enix doesn't want to make a full quest line for each job they add from lvl1 to whatever is the new cap. There is no practical or business reason besides that. There are reasons why to make classes at lvl1. It will entice more players to play the game if they won't have to drudge through dozens of hours of quests on something they don't enjoy. But that's hard to measure and may not make up for the money needed for all the "legacy" support for classes. It's just easier to tell new players "Screw you, we don't care about you so deal with it." than actually give them something new.

New job will definitely not be played by them, so what is the point to make them running duties, which barely anyone does anymore?

New jobs will not be played by new players that start from level 1 if they will be available from level 1?!...Huh?! I may be missing something here, I do have a fever after all, but that have no sense to me.

New players also very much do the low level duties. To allow them to do them is the very reason why leveling roulette is there.

Sure they could make them available from lvl 1 as you said, but what for? New content is being sold to the players already playing, so this job is made for them primary, not for newcomers.

Do you seriously think that people buy A Realm Reborn, then once they finished it Heavensward, then after finishing THAT Stormblood then after finishing that Shadowbringers?! That's not even possible. Only the newest expansion is sold with all the former ones packed into it. New players either will have A Realm Reborn only or the complete game at the time of purchase.


Anyway, I won't continue discussing this with you. If you cannot even understand the difference between someone wanting something to be different from a person saying that it's like that...then it's a waste of time.

[Metalwrath]

You learn same stuff at novice mission.
Since your performance is mostly knowledge of the duties you run and your skills, and the muscle memory, it wont help anyone to lvl it 1-80. One skill you get at lvl 70-80 could change the job gameplay by 180 degrees, that will make your 1-70 experience obsolete. Just like in a case of warrior, it is totally different job on lvl 70 than it is on lvl 50 or 60. Honestly it would make more good in the long run if we never had any lvls to begin with.
.

Warrior lvl 50 opens in unchained on bosses.Uses steel cyclone on big group pulls to maintain agro,Pulls with tamohawk.Holmgang used when warrior about to die.Warrior keeps storms eye up.Main rotation combo is butchers block one.
All those things are still the same at lvl 70.
And seeming as the thread is about people who have never played tank needing to learn how to tank ie 'hold agro use migitation and pulls etc' and not about new players not knowing how to dps well on tank your point is irrelevant.Not just that its harmful telling players they dont need to learn their job till lvl 70.So many bad players out there in duty finder because of this advice from experienced players that should know better than to tell them something that stupid.

It's same as people saying that people will just run potd etc.Ofc they will because fc's keep recommending to new players as the best way to level jobs.
But thats not every player.Not everyone runs potd and hoh to level contrary to belief.
And if those players are going to level through dungeons it's much better than them to learn at lower levels how to get down the tanking basics then try learn it at lvl 60 where lets be honest most players in df are not going to be welcoming to players trying to learn at lvl 60 because they will expect them at that high lvl in dungeon to know how to deal with agro and migitation and pulling.You'll end up with people getting their heads chewed off in duty finder and having them put off playing tank.

[Elkanah]

My point: An UWU weapon is a bad example to use in this scenario because it does not mean that the player cleared UWU on that particular job. I can get an Ultima Curtana despite not knowing how to play Paladin because I've cleared UWU on Red Mage.

You know, I'll call that as a fair enough point. However, if you're more than able to get the job to max cap to use the weapon, and still don't know how to play the job (after hitting at least 50 or 60, where most of the bread and butter is for skills pre-rotation in full at 70-- better yet, WILLING to learn how to play the job you hit 70 with), then ultimately you're a burden on the player base. And the party you're in. There's no excuse for a player at 50+ who still doesn't have a base understanding of their job, let alone their skills and bother to read them in the first place.

[RitsukoSonoda]

And it caused major complaints as a result, and turned off many new players from even reaching that point in the story to actually try the jobs that were promoted and tag-lined in HW marketing, so to rectify this they moved RDM & SAM to Ul'dah because they learned their mistake. I seriously doubt they'd undo their correction to a mistake. They can't make money if the players who'd be interested in playing GnB leave the game due to impractical placement of the job's unlock area.

Square has learned that having easy access to the biggest market materials of an expansion does a lot better for player retention than sticking it behind (arguably pointless) out of the way unlock conditions. If they stick it in gridania with lvl 60 being the only requirment (maybe lvl 50 story quest completed as well), it'd be easy for a new player to chug a story + lvl 60 pot, unlock GnB and play the job they wanted to for the rest of the MSQ.

It wasn't so much that the HW jobs were started in a HW area as much as the entire access to that area was gated behind a trial that required the entire party to be somewhat competent to clear before it was nerfed considerably. There was so much salt over that trial from both the people that just wanted to be carried and the people that weren't clearing because of randoms in their party that just wanted to be carried.

Also a clueless DPS has a far smaller impact in normal duties and a large number of people may not even notice unless they use a parse. While a clueless healer or tank can frequently cause wipes.

Basics of enmity management are actually learned in the low level duties when you don't have numerous crutches to fall back on. The issue is all roles should be learning enmity management at these levels however most DPS blow it off then blame the tank for not holding hate or the healer for not healing them enough to keep them alive because they insist on blowing everything on their skill bar before the tank can even tag the monster or attack an entirely different target, etc...

[Dualgunner]

You know, I'll call that as a fair enough point. However, if you're more than able to get the job to max cap to use the weapon, and still don't know how to play the job (after hitting at least 50 or 60, where most of the bread and butter is for skills pre-rotation in full at 70-- better yet, WILLING to learn how to play the job you hit 70 with), then ultimately you're a burden on the player base. And the party you're in. There's no excuse for a player at 50+ who still doesn't have a base understanding of their job, let alone their skills and bother to read them in the first place.

Absolutely agreed. Personally, even once I hit cap I do some side research on rotations and practice for a few hours on Stone Sky Sea.

[Kapitan_Wuff]

I assumed you would already have needed a tank at level 60+ to unlock Gunbreaker. But I am new to the game and don't know how they handle new classes/DLC.

[linay]

I assumed you would already have needed a tank at level 60+ to unlock Gunbreaker. But I am new to the game and don't know how they handle new classes/DLC.

It's any job, does not have to be a tank. (It may not even require a job and could be done with a class.)

[MorbolvampireQueen6]

It's literally no different to handing healer/tank mains a level 50 dps in Stormblood, or the 3 jobs at 30 in Heavensward.

Personally I'd rather not have to slog through 20 levels to be able to play a new job in the new expansion. It was bad enough when I did it with Astrologian when Heavensward launched.

Eh a little differnt counting the in hw they start at 30 thats a good learning point....

In stormblood it didn't matter because any brain dead person can play a dps perfectly

[Zukissa]

I don't do any instances with my tanks for that reason because I suck. I know it so not going to waste other peoples time. There are many others that need to know this too.

[Nedkel]

And it caused major complaints as a result, and turned off many new players from even reaching that point in the story to actually try the jobs that were promoted and tag-lined in HW marketing, so to rectify this they moved RDM & SAM to Ul'dah because they learned their mistake. I seriously doubt they'd undo their correction to a mistake. They can't make money if the players who'd be interested in playing GnB leave the game due to impractical placement of the job's unlock area.

Square has learned that having easy access to the biggest market materials of an expansion does a lot better for player retention than sticking it behind (arguably pointless) out of the way unlock conditions. If they stick it in gridania with lvl 60 being the only requirment (maybe lvl 50 story quest completed as well), it'd be easy for a new player to chug a story + lvl 60 pot, unlock GnB and play the job they wanted to for the rest of the MSQ.

But one and the other have nothing to do with each other. There are tons of games where you need an expansion to play a class that you start at level one. Basically...every single paid MMO out there without multi-class system.

Requiring expansion to use its classes is nothing new at all. Heavensward had in its own locations, yes, but they said that they learned from that when people complained about having to do all that quest grinding for a lvl30 job. And they followed through with that claim in Stormblood. There really is no money for them in doing it more difficult.

They may know or they may forgot, no one know.
They still havent touched the worst thing in the game, and that is msq grind with countless number of fetch quests, which puts off most of the newcomers from the game, and they still selling the story skip for those not willing to get it all completed.
Never overestimate the company, they are always greedy, they could just tell that tanks are not for newbies and they should learn the game first before playing it.

Anyway, I won't continue discussing this with you. If you cannot even understand the difference between someone wanting something to be different from a person saying that it's like that...then it's a waste of time.

At least answer my question.
Does SE make this new job for newcomers or for people already playing the game, which are familiar with all basics around this game?
If the answer is, yes they are making for the veterans, then there is the reason why they decided to make it lvl 60 job, instead of lvl 1. There is no need to make it lvl 1, because people dont have to learn and it will annoy them.
Imagine the outcry if they somehow make it starting at lvl 1, there would be more people complaining about this alone than about the job being locked behind stuff for newbies, who barely even understand what classes are for what.