Gunbreaker starting level

[RitsukoSonoda]

That was brought up in a few other threads, but it's kind of a non-starter. It doesn't matter what level you let people start at, someone who doesn't bother to learn their job is going to be bad at it no matter what. You could force people to start GNB at 30, but all that would do is piss us actual tanks off quite royally. It wouldn't improve non-tanker's ability to do the job well. People either take the time to learn their job or they don't. Forcing a "tutorial" on them has never worked. This is evidenced by the fact that we see level 70 PLDs, WARs and DRKs that don't have a clue of what their doing, even though they had to start at 1 / 30. (or just bought a skip potion/PotD leveled)

I honestly wouldn't care. It would probably add more to the game for me if all new jobs started at 1. I seriously re-capped everything and leveled SAM and RDM in no time at all when Stormblood came out. Tanks and healers went way faster than DPS in this regard because of instant queue on duties. I was also one of those people that didn't get blocked by Raubahn and Pipen Ultimate. The only slow classes to level for me are my DoH and DoL jobs because I been excessively lazy and just feeding them with GC turn ins when I actually remember to do so. But then I've been known for excessively high efficiency when I actually put my mind into something.

[Barraind]

Starting expansion classes at the level floor of the previous expansion and requiring that level to unlock is one of the best things 14 has done in the last few years.

[DamianFatale]

Tbh Im in the camp that thinks all new jobs should start at level 1. Yes it takes longer, but if you really want that job you will put time into it, and learn it.

The only alternative Id be okay with is a level boost for people who have at least one level 70 tank already. It should be no more than 30-50.

[Kaedan]

Tbh Im in the camp that thinks all new jobs should start at level 1. Yes it takes longer, but if you really want that job you will put time into it, and learn it.

The only alternative Id be okay with is a level boost for people who have at least one level 70 tank already. It should be no more than 30-50.

No offense, but that doesn't make any sense at all. You don't need to spend hours and hours between 1-30 to learn the job. Pardon my French, but you don't learn shit during those levels.

Again, it's all about actually reading what your skills do and comprehending. You don't need to waste hours and hours with an incomplete skillset. In fact, that accomplishes the exact opposite. You get used to one way of doing things with an incomplete skill set, and then when you get the full skill set, you have to completely relearn your rotations and combos.

[Kurando]

No offense, but that doesn't make any sense at all. You don't need to spend hours and hours between 1-30 to learn the job. Pardon my French, but you don't learn shit during those levels.

Again, it's all about actually reading what your skills do and comprehending. You don't need to waste hours and hours with an incomplete skillset. In fact, that accomplishes the exact opposite. You get used to one way of doing things with an incomplete skill set, and then when you get the full skill set, you have to completely relearn your rotations and combos.

Maybe not hours but running a few duties can help, everyone's way of learning is different after all. I say this as we still get WHMs spamming Cure III because they think a higher number means it's the better version of the spell, mute BRDs barely using songs, SMNs spamming Ruin II, DRG's avoiding using aoes on mobs.....

Honestly the list goes on but it just goes to show that reading the information about the actions is not always enough, it's putting them in to a proper scenario when you see the pros and cons of your actions, and also being seen by other players who notice the lack of certain things being done and give advice on how a player can handle their job more effectively.

[Kaedan]

Maybe not hours but running a few duties can help, everyone's way of learning is different after all. I say this as we still get WHMs spamming Cure III because they think a higher number means it's the better version of the spell, mute BRDs barely using songs, SMNs spamming Ruin II, DRG's avoiding using aoes on mobs.....

Honestly the list goes on but it just goes to show that reading the information about the actions is not always enough, it's putting them in to a proper scenario when you see the pros and cons of your actions, and also being seen by other players who notice the lack of certain things being done and give advice on how a player can handle their job more effectively.

Actually, your examples are the perfect illustration as to why forcing leveling DOESN'T help.

You see, all those WHM, BRD, SMNs that don't know how to play? They have been "not knowing how to play" for a long time. They don't know how to play because they don't take the time to understand their skills. They just play. And I guarantee a lot of the bad players have been playing since level 1.

Yes, everyone learns differently... that doesn't really matter though. Just because some people can't learn by reading and comprehending their skills doesn't mean you should force "tutorial levels" on people who get by perfectly fine by reading and comprehending their skills. (I know you're not necessarily suggesting starting at 1 or 30 or something ridiculous like that... just for the other guy's benefit)

The only way someone gets better at their job is if they put the effort into doing so. Forcing them to start at low level isn't going to force them to put the effort in to learn the job well. And seeing as jobs only fully come together at max level, you generally have to relearn all your combos and rotations at max level anyway.

You are right though, it's best to practice by running a few duties. But that's built into the item system and the MSQ system. People will get plenty of practice even starting from 60.

[Kurando]

snip

I wasn't suggesting or enforcing anything, more just highlighting from my own experience and from some other players I've know who have benefited from doing some lower level duties and moving up rather than going straight from the starting level (if it's 30+). My gripe if anything would be someone let's say new to tanking and jumps straight to Gunbreaker with no previous tanking experience, I would hope they get some training beforehand whether it's lower duties or something else you know.

[Videra]

Tbh Im in the camp that thinks all new jobs should start at level 1. Yes it takes longer, but if you really want that job you will put time into it, and learn it.

The only alternative Id be okay with is a level boost for people who have at least one level 70 tank already. It should be no more than 30-50.

You don't learn anything from starting with an incomplete skillset. You don't even have your basic tools at level one. So to be frank with you? No. Your idea is horrid.

[Elkanah]

Tbh Im in the camp that thinks all new jobs should start at level 1. Yes it takes longer, but if you really want that job you will put time into it, and learn it.

The only alternative Id be okay with is a level boost for people who have at least one level 70 tank already. It should be no more than 30-50.

I've seen full blown tanks, dps and heals who own a UWU weapon, and still not know jackwad's about their jobs. So no, being 1 or 70 and 80 doesn't mean "you learn your job" or will. If you don't put in the time and energy to learn your jobs, rotation, regardless of level, then you're more of a burden to the player base than worth their salt.

[Dualgunner]

I've seen full blown tanks, dps and heals who own a UWU weapon, and still not know jackwad's about their jobs. So no, being 1 or 70 and 80 doesn't mean "you learn your job" or will. If you don't put in the time and energy to learn your jobs, rotation, regardless of level, then you're more of a burden to the player base than worth their salt.

Not to argue the point, but if they have their UWU weapon and are bad at their job, either

A) It's an alt job and they've cleared UWU multiple times; in this case the UWU weapon is not an indicator of their skill on that job
B) They're trolling because once you beat an Ultimate, everything else pales a bit so they're having fun at the group's expense
C) They bought their clear, no indication of skill whatsoever

My point: An UWU weapon is a bad example to use in this scenario because it does not mean that the player cleared UWU on that particular job. I can get an Ultima Curtana despite not knowing how to play Paladin because I've cleared UWU on Red Mage.