Gender locked race?

[xbahax92]

So much this. We already have so many fierce bulky men in this game, there is a glut of choice in that area. Give us a soft, cute one, for once, please! I would Fantasia so fast.

Not only that. For me, emotes and running animations are also an important factor for deciding on races.
When I tried out Midlander and Au Ra, I was so underwhelmed by their run animations, its so stiff, I really dislike it.
Even more a reason I would like them to be miqote build, maybe they'll get also a sleek, athletic run. Also, ear wiggle emotes are op, cant beat them.

[xxvaynxx]

I too hope male viera are a similar build to male miqo'te.

I won't ever play them but I think we need more pretty boys in true FF fashion.

I seen people say they should be bulky but I think they'll be slim, they probably jump around tree to tree like a ninja and probably quick on their feet while being very dexterous.

[BillyKaplan]

Also, ear wiggle emotes are op, cant beat them.

...Viera ear wiggles............. the dream.

[Alleo]

Congrats on 200 guys! I sketched out possible male Viera and female Hrothgar designs that I'd like. I'm not very good at outfit design so forgive that >o>

Wow that looks awesome. Maybe a bit more fur on the female body and it would be perfect for me.

[Gwenorai]

Snip.

I kind of agree with this one actually, it makes a lot of sense to me and is probably part of the reason why Yoshida thinks a cute male would be weird? I don't know, when I read their lore I certainly don't imagine cute in like a 'awwww' he's adorable, kind of way. Let's not beat around the bush, they're cold-blooded murderers - who use the title as Wood Warden to justify it. They literally murder anyone who goes into the wood, regardless of why they're there. A merchant could be lost, a person could be running away from their enemies, completely innocent - they don't care. Your presence offends them, they will kill you. If you're lucky they might even ask you why you're there and then they'll kill you.

The males fight among themselves for space and resources, that means only the strongest of the strong are going to survive in the long run to survive. Yet again, you have a bunch of dogmatic powerful men competing for space around the village/but not actually in it and for the best hunting spots. They're constantly fighting either each other, the wildlife or outsiders. It's what they're primed for.


So yeah, I can imagine them being 'cute' in a handsome type of way, but rugged in the form of the body. Someone did mention a dancers body which I could get behind. Have you seen how well developed a ballet dancers body is? Especially a male? Those guys are pure lean sculptured muscle. They have to be if they have to lift their own weight, someone elses weight and leap high. Come to think of it, I imagine it's just like that for a male Viera. They get around by travelling quickly from jumping from tree to tree in complete silence - these guys must have the thighs of gods and the ability to jump like dragoons.

Regarding African. No, they don't have bulk but they're lean as Jamia stated - but you also need to take into consideration that those guys work in tribes and aren't alone. Their diets and lifestyle don't allow them to put on bulk, lack of protein due to the low number of game and the difficulty to hunt. So, using them as an example is kinda 'meh'. South American Tribesman is closer to home due to jungle environs; but still, not a good example to make due to comparing of fantasy with reality. In reality, you're not going to find 6ft+ dreamboats walking around wearing high heels in Jungles. Heck, they're more likely to be 5ft-5'5 in height with smaller ears - and that'd be regarding ALL Viera. If we were going to get all logical about it.

Of course, this all comes to the whole idea of how a person imagines 'fierce' to be. To me, a tiny cutie boy is not fierce. His actions do not inspire fear or 'wow badass'. Fierce to me is, 'damn, you don't want to mess with them.' Fierce by definition is someone who shows an intense amount of aggression; ferocious and savage. Of course, we can bring up the whole Au'ra argument on how the females of the Azim steppe are supposed to be fierce. Yeah, they are - their concept art had them looking super fierce, I loved that. But we also know why they decided to go 'wifu' mode with them. Sex appeal and cuteness sells.

And for the record, feminity can be fierce. Amazonian women in myths are viewed as these tall bulking women who can crush you with their bare hands, yet be beautiful. Beauty can be fierce. An elegant woman/man can be fierce - adorable cutie patootie? Eh, I don't know. Anyone here takes their really adorable cute dog trying to snarl seriously? I'm sure someone can use this type of thing in RPs I suppose.

But yes, this is my opinion really; I'm not one for adorable cute men in terms of 'aww he's a cutie' more like 'Damn, he's cute.'

Press X to doubt fierceness of adorable little bunny boy.
Press F to respect the now dead underestimating silly boy.

Here's an example of a male ballet dancer; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z2Eqm72sr4 Yes, he's 'pole dancing' imagine he's just doing 'ring of thorns.'

And a reminder; that elegance and beauty in regards to males should not be associated with specific sexuality - It's backwards thinking - I hope Yoshi realises this and I think he does, due to Dancer, I'm hoping that's going to be elegant for both genders in game.

[seraphmage]

I am a bit late to the party here but thought I would add my two cents.

On the topic of gender locking races, I believe it is an all-around bad idea. In cases where a video game is centered around a protagonist who has been iconically cast as a particular gender, I can understand a developer not providing both gender options but FFXIV is not that game. Since 2.0 all playable races have offered both gender options despite any lore-related tidbits that would suggest a given race/gender combination being rare. Moreover, the nature of FFXIV is that while there is an underlying story and lore to create a tasteful level of immersion, the producer and his team regularly color outside of the lines, examples of which have been offered in large volume throughout this thread.

I don't wish to point fingers or attack the developers at the moment because, until JP fanfest, everything boils down to speculation. This being said, -if- they have chosen to introduce one or more gender locked races I believe this is a huge step backward for a development team that has, in my mind, shown itself to be forward thinking when it comes to dated views on gender roles. To suddenly do an about-face and implement pin-up ultra feminine bunny girls and (hypothetical) super masculine lion dudes with no options in between simply feeds into all kinds of video game tropes that this team has proven themselves to be better than.

For clarity, this is not to suggest that I believe pin-up bunny girls and beefy lion boys should be excluded from the game. I find toxic anti-femininity and anti-masculinity to be just as distasteful but the point is not to alienate people when there is simply no solid justification for doing so. The lore argument, as previously noted, is weak at best. As someone who comes from a development background, the workload-related arguments also bewilder me. All the work that had to go into implementing the ears and feet for Viera females (an amount of work that should not be understated/underestimated) can most certainly be used in part if not directly for the males. Moreover, implementing the male counterpart of a race for which you've already implemented females is certainly no more work than creating an entirely separate male gender locked race.

In closing, I've not really added anything unique to the thread here but more hope that someone from the development team might see my post as an addition to the overwhelming voice that wants to avoid going down this path. I also hope that the producer and his team are smarter than this and at JP fanfest a clear path is revealed toward playable male and female genders for Viera and any other race they may be adding in the next expansion. If some insurmountable obstacle exists that prevents them from doing this then I believe it would have been far better to simply hold their cards and wait on implementing Viera until they could do so fully.

[Brynne]

To suddenly do an about-face and implement pin-up ultra feminine bunny girls and (hypothetical) super masculine lion dudes with no options in between simply feeds into all kinds of video game tropes that this team has proven themselves to be better than.

For clarity, this is not to suggest that I believe pin-up bunny girls and beefy lion boys should be excluded from the game. I find toxic anti-femininity and anti-masculinity to be just as distasteful but the point is not to alienate people when there is simply no solid justification for doing so.

You said this way better than I could've - thank you. I'm really tired of this outdated gender policing. Just gives us all the options and let us decide for ourselves.

[WhiteArchmage]

...Viera ear wiggles............. the dream.

I...I'd spam /joy just to see them wiggle over and over...

[Crushnight]

I don't think Viera ears will move much unlike miqo'te it seems like we'll get different ear types i don't see devs putting that much effort for emotes per ear type

[Lauront]

Congrats on 200 guys! I sketched out possible male Viera and female Hrothgar designs that I'd like. I'm not very good at outfit design so forgive that >o>

It's a nice piece of art, but it's not really something that would lure me to play a Viera male.

All of this makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't really want a feminine male race but if that's how they choose male Viera to look can't really argue against it. I would just still put my vote in the Hrothgar tab

IMO, we can expect a modification of the adult male concept art they showed, if they make it in.

If Hrothgar is a bulky thing then I don't really want to "wish" my opinion of bulky Viera onto others who don't want it, but if Hrothgar isn't a thing then I can't help but let my selfish desire overtake the "understanding" and wish "bulk viera, bulky viera, lets go plz".

I wish clans were used more dynamically though, then I'd wish for a masculine heavy to medium (based on options) clan and a medium to very light masculine (high feminine) option for most diversity. Unfortunately it seems clans are often color switches and a few changes to other things, not like Hyur which gives you a strong difference in options.

This is my view, too, and I'm in the same boat. I almost wish they'd just add two dimorphic clans, to resolve the whole issue of discrepant expectations regarding Viera. Modifying the Feol concept to fit this would do the trick. Alternatively, sliders with a wide berth of settings could help as well.

Plus, if we were to talk realistically, 'bulk' isn't solely down to muscle mass, bone structure plays a role too. If male Viera have slender shoulders (as they realistically could have given their 'quirk' of being virtually indistinguishable from the females until puberty and then don't age all that much after) they wouldn't appear classically 'bulky' if they tried. Toned, yes, but not bulky.

Could but it's never stated that they do in fact work that way. Given that differentiation kicks in at that point, I imagine puberty and hormones work much the same in them as they do in humans in setting the two sexes apart physically and mentally. Humans of either sex are very similar too, after all, up to that point - hence why there's some speculation that the comments may be alluding to something else that is unique in terms of what would differentiate a male and a female at such an age.

So much this. We already have so many fierce bulky men in this game, there is a glut of choice in that area. Give us a soft, cute one, for once, please! I would Fantasia so fast.

You can design midlanders and catboys to fit that description, through adjusting the height and face on both and the muscle tone on midlanders. You can even do so with elezen, and lalafell are small, soft and cute. Also, whilst male Viera need not be bulky, they also won't be soft. There isn't a dearth of choice in either area.

And female xaela are supposed to be fierce warriors of the steppe, and yet we got tiny waifus. /shrug

Yes, a pretty awful move on their part, IMO. I'd rather they not repeat such pandering. Already Viera females are far too girly and giggly for my liking. Yes, a lot of people play female au ra, but it's not like catgirls and female midlanders or even highlanders could not be given such waifu design.

They missed the boat with Au ra design, IMO, and could have differentiated each subrace by allowing Xaela some more monstrous features, whilst keeping Raen as they are - for both, I would have liked the females to simply have a bigger height bar (i.e. from the current minimum to say maybe 175.)

I kind of agree with this one actually [...]

Agreed on all those points. Although they need not be as large as au ra, much of their lore is antithetical to them being soft or cutesy. I'd rather they not repeat what they did with female au ra. In fact, I like this post so much, I'll bookmark it.

Regarding Amazonian women, I see highlander women as closest to that, as they were not exactly depicted as being super bulky, but like Artemis, lean and athletic.

I don't really see them as being overly feminine and child-like. They're meant to be fierce protectors of the forest and are even more isolated than their female counterparts - not to mention more solitary, suggesting a large degree of self reliance. Realistically that'd result in a decent amount of bulk - as seen in the more muscular concept art. It'd also reflect the effects of a tribal lifestyle as we know it in the real world.

I don't expect them to be hulking brutes, but I am expecting them to have a similar look to that typical of wood elves, i.e. wiry and lean. I'd therefore expect them to be between the size of an elezen and a midlander.

This is still my favourite look for one, which I am sure everyone can agree isn't super bulky: