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  1. #1801
    Player
    WhiteArchmage's Avatar
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    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,457
    Character
    Samniel Atkascha
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    And it's gonna be 5 LONG weeks at this rate
    (1)

  2. #1802
    Player
    cicatriz313's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    428
    Character
    Fayt Azuresky
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Rogue Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl0217 View Post
    So in other words I can go back and add adjectives to my statements like "likely" and "probably" and it makes all of Shippuu's demands for evidence effectively moot even though what I am stating in the sentence doesn't actually change. Nor will I have to actually defend them giving all the arguments on this subject he gave. Correct?
    I don't know what you said. If you said the dev team specifically did something without sources and change your posts now you're effectively saying something completely different. I don't know how you don't see that.
    Example would be Yoshida did this because he wanted blank and here's where he said that. Or
    I think Yoshida did this because he wanted blank but I have no real idea and I'm just coming up with random things.
    (4)

  3. #1803
    Player
    Karl0217's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    167
    Character
    Koh'a Ganajai
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by cicatriz313 View Post
    I don't know what you said. If you said the dev team specifically did something without sources and change your posts now you're effectively saying something completely different. I don't know how you don't see that.
    Example would be Yoshida did this because he wanted blank and here's where he said that. Or
    I think Yoshida did this because he wanted blank but I have no real idea and I'm just coming up with random things.
    In both cases you are making a claim about what the dev teams did. Does hedging the statement with an adjective like "probably" or a phrase like "I think" exempt you from having to provide argumentation and evidence to back up that statement in a debate? It is a fairly simply question.
    (2)
    Last edited by Karl0217; 02-18-2019 at 12:23 PM.

  4. #1804
    Player
    cicatriz313's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    428
    Character
    Fayt Azuresky
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Rogue Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl0217 View Post
    In both cases you are making a claim about what the dev teams did. Does hedging the statement with an adjective like "probably" or a phrase like "I think" exempt you from having to provide argumentation and evidence to back up that statement in a debate?
    In a debate you would have the evidence prepared. If it's a forum, yes just stating your opinion and not stating fact exempts you from needing a source.
    (5)

  5. #1805
    Player
    Shippuu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    628
    Character
    Shippuu Nammuu
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl0217 View Post
    Well, let's put your little standard to a test. If I go back and change the statement

    Gender-locked races definitely damaged the 1.0 version of the game enough that one of the first things Yoshida did after taking over the project was remove them. Or have you forgotten that?

    to

    Gender-locked races probably damaged the 1.0 version of the game significantly. After all, that one of the first things Yoshida did after taking over the project was remove them. Or have you forgotten that?

    Does the addition of the word probably change what I am saying, or what I am thinking, when I made that statement; yes or no?
    Yes, it does change what you are saying, because those words have different meanings. That's why we have different words for different things. That's what adverbs are for, they modify.

    The addition of the word would have absolutely not resulted in me asking you to back up that claim with evidence. Because it wouldn't have been you definitively saying something without proof, but stating it as a possibility which is far more reasonable. So yes, it absolutely does change what you're saying. It went from a "This thing absolutely happened" to "This thing possibly happened."
    (3)

  6. #1806
    Player
    Karl0217's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    167
    Character
    Koh'a Ganajai
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by cicatriz313 View Post
    In a debate you would have the evidence prepared. If it's a forum, yes just stating your opinion and not stating fact exempts you from needing a source.
    So in a forum even if I believe a statement to be true I merely have to add to proper adjective to the statement and be exempt from having to defend it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shippuu View Post
    Yes, it does change what you are saying, because those words have different meanings. That's why we have different words for different things. That's what adverbs are for, they modify.

    The addition of the word would have absolutely not resulted in me asking you to back up that claim with evidence. Because it wouldn't have been you definitively saying something without proof, but stating it as a possibility which is far more reasonable. So yes, it absolutely does change what you're saying. It went from a "This thing absolutely happened" to "This thing possibly happened."
    But in both cases my underlying meaning remains the same. So according to you I can go back, add words like probably to my statements and effectively make all your demands for evidence moot even though my underlying meaning remains the same. Correct?
    (3)
    Last edited by Karl0217; 02-18-2019 at 12:31 PM.

  7. #1807
    Player
    cicatriz313's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
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    428
    Character
    Fayt Azuresky
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Rogue Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl0217 View Post
    So in a forum even if I believe a statement to be true I merely have to add to proper adjective to the statement and be exempt from having to defend it?



    But in both cases my underlying meaning remains the same. So according to you I can go back, add words like probably to my statements and effectively make all your demands for evidence moot even though my underlying meaning remains the same. Correct?
    Lmao dude you are ridiculous. Like if you can't see you're wrong I'll just leave you be.
    (6)

  8. #1808
    Player
    Karl0217's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    167
    Character
    Koh'a Ganajai
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by cicatriz313 View Post
    Lmao dude you are ridiculous. Like if you can't see you're wrong I'll just leave you be.
    Funny how you didn't point out it was ridiculous when Shippuu hid behind it in his posts.
    (4)

  9. #1809
    Player
    Shippuu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    628
    Character
    Shippuu Nammuu
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl0217 View Post
    But in both cases my underlying meaning remains the same. So according to you I can go back, add words like probably to my statements and effectively make all your demands for evidence moot even though my underlying meaning remains the same. Correct?
    Yes, but saying definitely means you're stating it as an absolute fact. If you are going to state something is a fact, you need to be able to back that up with evidence that proves it's a fact. If you say you only think something may be so, you're entitled to believe that. I could certainly inquire into what might have given you that belief, but you'd not have to prove anything, especially since you would have been speaking in possibilities, as in, the outcome/cause could be unknown.

    Just like if you change your mind now, and want to say you probably think 1.0 genderlocks damaged the game, I would most certainly not ask for evidence. It's the fact you said they definitely did that brings umbrage and a request for proof.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl0217 View Post
    Funny how you didn't point out it was ridiculous when Shippuu hid behind it in his posts.
    Probably because I wasn't saying the devs absolutely did things, and was only talking about possibilities, but here we go again.
    (3)

  10. #1810
    Player
    Karl0217's Avatar
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    Apr 2018
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    167
    Character
    Koh'a Ganajai
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Shippuu View Post
    Yes, but saying definitely means you're stating it as an absolute fact. If you are going to state something is a fact, you need to be able to back that up with evidence that proves it's a fact. If you say you only think something may be so, you're entitled to believe that. I could certainly inquire into what might have given you that belief, but you'd not have to prove anything, especially since you would have been speaking in possibilities, as in, the outcome/cause could be unknown.

    Just like if you change your mind now, and want to say you probably think 1.0 genderlocks damaged the game, I would most certainly not ask for evidence. It's the fact you said they definitely did that brings umbrage and a request for proof.
    So in other words my initial assertion that it's use by you is nothing more than a tactic to get out having to provide evidence to back up your statements via weasel words is more or less correct. Thank you for that admission.
    (7)

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