Gender locked race?

[Karl0217]

I don't have to prove anything because unlike you making direct statements that they did X because of Y in the past I was only proposing a theory as to potential reasoning for something they may or may not have done. I'm not claiming they absolutely did something because of other markets, but it could absolutely be a factor in the decision.

So in other words you just want to attack and not have to actually defend any of the statements you made? Can't say I am surprised that you demand hard evidence from your opponents but are incapable of providing it for your arguments.

And no player race is a major selling point for this game's expansions.

How odd, in this post:

People keep going on like only the JP/NA/EU player's desires/tastes count. They seem to be forgetting the large player bases in the Korean and Chinese markets. People often talk about how genderlocking is a staple of Korean MMO's, so new genderlocked races couldn't possibly be catering to that crowd? Especially when those are areas they would likely look to be increasing their playerbase even more as they may have reached a plateau in the NA/EU/JP regions.

you went and implied that it would be a major selling point in the Chinese and Korean markets. Now you are saying it is not. Which is it?

Besides, Heavensward didn't get damaged when they opted for Au Ra over viera. Stormblood didn't get damaged when they opted for Nothing over viera. Now Shadowbringers is coming, and it's bringing the viera that the vast majority of players aware of what a viera is think of when they think of viera. So yeah, its a pretty safe assumption nothing is going to happen except a bunch of whining.

Difference in this situation being that we know they did development work on male Viera; remember that concept art? We have seen male/female Viera options referenced in the code via that bug. We have seen lore dumps on male Viera in game. We have hard evidence that male Viera were being developed in game. The onus is on you to provide hard evidence and arguments as to why development work on them was abandoned and not simply make 'what if' claims based on personal opinions and bias.

[Tharne]

Difference in this situation being that we know they did development work on male Viera; remember that concept art? We have seen male/female Viera options referenced in the code via that bug. We have seen lore dumps on male Viera in game. We have hard evidence that male Viera were being developed in game. The onus is on you to provide hard evidence and arguments as to why development work on them was abandoned and not simply make 'what if' claims based on personal opinions and bias.

Concept art =/= developed in-game. Also a lot of concepts end up not being used, that the point of a concept. The male/female in the code could possibly be for security.
And yes the lore dumps, Yoshida said that they gave some hints inside. After reading them for the first time yesterday and having no positive nor negative feeling toward the male Viera subject, the one line that stuck out in this lore dump was the last one : "They simply do not exist to us."

[cicatriz313]

Difference in this situation being that we know they did development work on male Viera; remember that concept art? We have seen male/female Viera options referenced in the code via that bug. We have seen lore dumps on male Viera in game. We have hard evidence that male Viera were being developed in game. The onus is on you to provide hard evidence and arguments as to why development work on them was abandoned and not simply make 'what if' claims based on personal opinions and bias.

If you're using the concept art as evidence (which is ridiculous, honestly,) you're saying that not only are we getting male Viera, we are getting two types of female Viera, one like Fran and one chibi version as well as two types of male Viera. Like you have to admit concept art is just throwing everything at Yoshi and seeing what sticks and isn't indicative AT ALL of what is coming to the game. What is indicative is the fact that Yoshi has said that he isn't keen on the idea of male Viera. Also while we have seen the French version accident, not only do we have both pronouns in there we also have AN ENTIRE NEW RACE. I don't know how optimistic you want to be, but it seems far more likely to have two genderlocked races than two full races. The lore is also ridiculous to use in the pro-male Viera argument because it specifically highlights how rare they are the main patch before Viera will be added as a playable race... I'm not saying that's 100% proof of no male Viera, I'm saying it's silly to use that as a pro argument. There's your evidence, which Shippuu has also said multiple times in past posts if you had bothered to read.

[Shippuu]

Note that Alleo talked about enemies.
Ifrit, Titan, Levi. They're all either animals or ... whatever Titan's supposed to be.
Then you have Shiva and Garuda and Lakshmi. You can call lore elements all you want but the fact remains you're not going to find a completely deformed female enemy because they want them to still be waifu material.

Some prime Waifu Material Here:
Tomamo no Gozen, Suzaku, Ultima the High Seraph, Tioman, Twintania.

And these are just off the top of my head. Easy to make your point when you just ignore all the examples that blow it out of the water.

[Lacan]

Concept art =/= developed in-game. Also a lot of concepts end up not being used, that the point of a concept. The male/female in the code could possibly be for security.
And yes the lore dumps, Yoshida said that they gave some hints inside. After reading them for the first time yesterday and having no positive nor negative feeling toward the male Viera subject, the one line that stuck out in this lore dump was the last one : "They simply do not exist to us."

I really don't think you can use that line to say we aren't getting the males though. It just further describes their culture. They wanted to emphasis how reclusive the race is. The females are reclusive, and the males are even more so. I don't see why they would go into detail about how the males operate at all if they were going to just exclude them entirely like that.

[Gwenorai]

Some prime Waifu Material Here:
Tomamo no Gozen, Suzaku, Ultima the High Seraph, Tioman, Twintania.

And these are just off the top of my head. Easy to make your point when you just ignore all the examples that blow it out of the water.

Suzaku has a wifu form, Tomamo No Gozen has a wifu form, and Ultima the High Seraph also has a wifu form - check ff12.
Dragons don't count they're fully 'beast like'...unless you're into that thing.

Note; the fate 'Foxy Lady' she spawns as a female au'ra with fox ears before she turns into the ninetails; when she's defeated she reverts back into that form.

[Shippuu]

So in other words you just want to attack and not have to actually defend any of the statements you made? Can't say I am surprised that you demand hard evidence from your opponents but are incapable of providing it for your arguments.

Not my fault you can't differentiate from a hypothetical as to why they MIGHT do something compared to you saying they absolutely DID do something. One of these things would need hard evidence to prove, the other is simply speculation.
Even then, you provided zero proof for any of your claims, so why should I give you any in return if I needed to?

you went and implied that it would be a major selling point in the Chinese and Korean markets. Now you are saying it is not. Which is it?

So now you're putting words in my mouth? In that direct quote I never said it was a MAJOR selling point. Is a new player race A selling point? yes. Is it a major one? absolutely not or else FFXIV would launch every expansion with them.

Difference in this situation being that we know they did development work on male Viera; remember that concept art?

Concept art, one of the most earliest and often discarded part of development. Where hundreds of thousands of concepts go to the cutting room floor, reiterated by Yoshida just last fanfest during the art panel. Concept art is one of the weakest forms of evidence you could possibly use.

We have hard evidence that male Viera were being developed in game.

Except you really don't, outside of the code being set up for male and female viera, which has plenty of logical reasons for why this may be so even if they are genderlocked, from code uniformity, to a longer term plan to make them unlocked at a later point. Concept are is not evidence of final inclusion. Lore dump is only flavor text written up, and even that text implies they won't be around more likely than being playable.

The onus is on you to provide hard evidence and arguments as to why development work on them was abandoned and not simply make 'what if' claims based on personal opinions and bias.

You're assuming development proceeded past the concept art phase for male Viera and then was later abandoned (with no proof) which is based entirely on the existance of the coding which again, doesn't immediately rule out the possibilty of them being genderlocked. The lore dump doesn't prove they'll be playable either as in the end, it's just flavor text.

[Tsumdere]

Some prime Waifu Material Here:
Tomamo no Gozen, Suzaku, Ultima the High Seraph, Tioman, Twintania.

And these are just off the top of my head. Easy to make your point when you just ignore all the examples that blow it out of the water.

I mean, we were talking about primals (at least I was) since primals are going to be the most commonly seen enemies for most and very iconic, but go off.

Suzaku is a human for 85% of her fight. She's definitely the least feminine out of all of the female primals, but she's still beautiful.
Ultima's top half is a beautiful waifu. Not that I have a problem with this design, it fits her.
Tamamo no Gozen walks around as a beautiful Au Ra before transforming in her fate.

Tioman and Twintania are cool bosses. No problems here.

[Shippuu]

Suzaku has a wifu form, Tomamo No Gozen has a wifu form, and Ultima the High Seraph also has a wifu form - check ff12.
Dragons don't count they're fully 'beast like'...unless you're into that thing.

Arbitrary. It doesn't matter if they have waifu forms, they still have forms we fight them in where they're full on bestial. SE still had to develop the assets for them in their monstrous forms when they could have just gone straight to the waifu forms. And the dragons are still female enemies that look like beasts. They don't get to not count because then in order to make something visually look female it has to have feminine traits, of which you would just call it waifu pandering again.

And bringing in examples of waifu forms from other games? Really? Like, the entire prospect of people using Sophia, Garuda, Shiva, etc. as examples of some design bent when they're all throwback enemies from a history of Final Fantasy games and so their design is less intended to be attractive for attractive sake, and more to call back to the long history of how these enemies have looked in Final Fantasy games. There's little point in including these enemies that have that history if you're going to completely change their design to the point they aren't recognizable.

I mean, we were talking about primals (at least I was) since primals are going to be the most commonly seen enemies for most and very iconic, but go off.

Suzaku is a human for 85% of her fight. She's definitely the least feminine out of all of the female primals, but she's still beautiful.
Ultima's top half is a beautiful waifu. Not that I have a problem with this design, it fits her.
Tamamo no Gozen walks around as a beautiful Au Ra before transforming in her fate.

Tioman and Twintania are cool bosses. No problems here.

Ah ah ah, no arbitrary restrictions here. There was nothing in the context of what I quoted from implying this was restricted only to primals. And dungeon bosses would be the most commonly seen enemies considering the majority of the playerbase does not do Extreme trials, meaning they would see those primals once during the story and that's likely it.

Suzaku is still an example of a beastly looking female enemy.
Ultima: So as long as half the body is vaguely waifu it doesn't matter that the entire lower half is a godless abomination. Interesting standards.
Tamamo is another auspice, so her Au Ra form isn't her real form, her true form is the giant wolf monster.

[Gwenorai]

Arbitrary. It doesn't matter if they have waifu forms, they still have forms we fight them in where they're full on bestial. SE still had to develop the assets for them in their monstrous forms when they could have just gone straight to the waifu forms. And the dragons are still female enemies that look like beasts. They don't get to not count because then in order to make something visually look female it has to have feminine traits, of which you would just call it waifu pandering again.

And bringing in examples of waifu forms from other games? Really? Like, the entire prospect of people using Sophia, Garuda, Shiva, etc. as examples of some design bent when they're all throwback enemies from a history of Final Fantasy games and so their design is less intended to be attractive for attractive sake, and more to call back to the long history of how these enemies have looked in Final Fantasy games. There's little point in including these enemies that have that history if you're going to completely change their design to the point they aren't recognizable.

Lmao, why are you even complaining that I brought up FF12 ultima? Come on dude. She's wifu form in BOTH games. Her bottom half has always been like that 'strange, mysterious and in terms of FF14 mysterious', but the top half has always been how it is - beautiful wifu. Imagine complaining about that when the 24 man is a throwback to Tactics and FF12? Though, I'm actually impressed with her new design; especially how in FF12 she was found in a giant crystal maze... cool.

Anyway, you don't have a point dude not in regards to the female's enemies always looking like wife material if they have a humanoid form.
Square Enix doesn't know how to make ugly females - unless, you know, they're old.