Gender locked race?

[Gwenorai]

No matter how good the Hrothgar is people will still demand the male Viera, and it won't stop until SE caves in. Especially if there is male Viera NPC in game. And I honestly can't think of any reason we won't be meeting one if we will go to the woods in 5.0 without it being sound forced or ridiculous, like there's fire that's somehow eradicated the entire male even though they survived a Garlean attack before, which surely involved some fire.

Don't forget that if the Viera is genderlocked; then Hrothgar would have simply been added due to the developers - or rather Yoshida and possibly Yasumi - not wanting male Viera seen because of the idea that rabbit men are weird; a backwards viewpoint in this day and age. So, we're going to have a race right off the bat - unlike Viera; where males were considered and we have evidence of this - that was created to be genderlocked straight out of the gate. Any lore they add for Hrothgar is going to have them be with that imagery in mind.

That's what really boils my parsnips - creating a 'limited' race because of one archaic view that needs to bugger off. I'd be less steamed if Hrothgar wasn't genderlocked - least it's less half-arsed and not some sort of repeat of Gelka.

[wereotter]

Don't forget that if the Viera is genderlocked; then Hrothgar would have simply been added due to the developers - or rather Yoshida and possibly Yasumi - not wanting male Viera seen because of the idea that rabbit men are weird; a backwards viewpoint in this day and age. So, we're going to have a race right off the bat - unlike Viera; where males were considered and we have evidence of this - that was created to be genderlocked straight out of the gate. Any lore they add for Hrothgar is going to have them be with that imagery in mind.

That's what really boils my parsnips - creating a 'limited' race because of one archaic view that needs to bugger off. I'd be less steamed if Hrothgar wasn't genderlocked - least it's less half-arsed and not some sort of repeat of Gelka.

I think this is the real thing. Imagine, if you will, if at the launch of Heavensward we got female Viera and male Au Ra. No female Au Ra, and no male Viera. People would feel burned, not because they don't like Au Ra, but getting something people were looking forward to, but only for one sex, and getting something completely new and unheard of for the other feels unfair. And, that will be the real issue. If there is a seperate, male-only race being added, no matter how great it is, people will be angry that they're not getting something they've been looking forward to for many years.

[Lacan]

I think this is the real thing. Imagine, if you will, if at the launch of Heavensward we got female Viera and male Au Ra. No female Au Ra, and no male Viera. People would feel burned, not because they don't like Au Ra, but getting something people were looking forward to, but only for one sex, and getting something completely new and unheard of for the other feels unfair. And, that will be the real issue. If there is a seperate, male-only race being added, no matter how great it is, people will be angry that they're not getting something they've been looking forward to for many years.

Exactly this. It isn't a problem with Hrothgar itself. The problem is the situation that they've created around them. I don't understand why Yoshi would intentionally sour the waters for Hrothgar like this when he had to know this would be the result. That's why I've still got hope there is more to it than the leaks would have us believe. :v

[Theodric]

Don't forget that if the Viera is genderlocked; then Hrothgar would have simply been added due to the developers - or rather Yoshida and possibly Yasumi - not wanting male Viera seen because of the idea that rabbit men are weird; a backwards viewpoint in this day and age.

That's an entirely different can of worms. Non-Western countries are not obligated to conform to the exact same cultural standards as Western countries.

[Lauront]

That's an entirely different can of worms. Non-Western countries are not obligated to conform to the exact same cultural standards as Western countries.

I'd go further and even say this isn't some general western mindset but just a viewpoint which emerges from the west. I don't think it's necessarily backwards at all. At odds with what many of us are after? Maybe, but that's a different thing.

[Gwenorai]

That's an entirely different can of worms. Non-Western countries are not obligated to conform to the exact same cultural standards as Western countries.

It's not the differences in 'non-western' culture that bothers me. The game and Yoshida's culture being that of the east isn't my argument for it being 'old fashioned'. My argument is more that it's old fashioned for the times we live in regardless of east/west cultures.

I mean, I'm sure someone can correct me here; but isn't the idea of 'attractive' 'aesthetically pleasing' men actually very popular in Japan? To the point that most of the male protags in FF games have followed the troupe of being 'aesthetically pleasing' 'Cute' and 'Handsome'.

So what about the 'bunny men' is weird? What does Yoshida dislike about men that happened to have rabbit ears; this is where the old fashioned viewpoint comes in - some people view 'rabbit ears' and rabbits, in general, to be feminine. So a dude with bunny ears is instantly seen as 'flamboyant/gay/camp' - it's not just the east that has this 'viewpoint' but also in the west. This type of view is harmful and needs to go away. Of course this isn't me being the white knight of social justice, it's just something that I feel is unhealthy and/or silly.

I, however, don't want to jump the bandwagon and assume Yoshida is a bigot because he never really stated why a bunny man was weird, and I understand his argument regarding the 'cute' characteristic where a male Viera shouldn't be adorable but more rugged and fierce looking. I'm hoping his idea on 'weird' is due to the lore or perhaps because he's unsure if he should be the one implemented them or something. I don't know. Or perhaps just bad wording, he was responding on the fly - so yeah.

[Lauront]

Whether or not one agrees with the devs' views, it is their game ultimately. I don't think such views are inherently "backwards" - they simply represent a different value/preference set. I would prefer that they don't gender lock the race, as I don't like gender locks as a rule, but if they do not want male Viera added to the game, that is their choice. Those who feel strongly enough about it will unsub, the rest will grumble and continue playing since there's other options that meet their preferences.

Now, would I be over the moon if they added Viera to my tastes? Yes, absolutely.

[Lauront]

I think the principle error they have is that the 2015 concept art at the least gave the impression that they had found a way to implement male Viera in a way that would be palatable to them. They'd have done well to have headed this off ASAP if they had no intention of following through with it, because other than that art, there is really nothing official from SE regarding how male Viera might look.

[cicatriz313]

I think the principle error they have is that the 2015 concept art at the least gave the impression that they had found a way to implement male Viera in a way that would be palatable to them. They'd have done well to have headed this off ASAP if they had no intention of following through with it, because other than that art, there is really nothing official from SE regarding how male Viera might look.

Based on the panel at EU fanfest, it seemed sketches done by the art team are super early in the development cycle. Them having art I don't think necessarily means they were able to overcome their distaste of the idea of male Viera. For all we know, that art got to Yoshi and he just said nah, gross. Like we saw the same little bunny art at this past fanfest, but I don't see many people jumping for joy that it's indicative of a vastly different subrace.