Gender locked race?

[xxvaynxx]

I too hope male viera are a similar build to male miqo'te.

I won't ever play them but I think we need more pretty boys in true FF fashion.

I seen people say they should be bulky but I think they'll be slim, they probably jump around tree to tree like a ninja and probably quick on their feet while being very dexterous.

[seraphmage]

I am a bit late to the party here but thought I would add my two cents.

On the topic of gender locking races, I believe it is an all-around bad idea. In cases where a video game is centered around a protagonist who has been iconically cast as a particular gender, I can understand a developer not providing both gender options but FFXIV is not that game. Since 2.0 all playable races have offered both gender options despite any lore-related tidbits that would suggest a given race/gender combination being rare. Moreover, the nature of FFXIV is that while there is an underlying story and lore to create a tasteful level of immersion, the producer and his team regularly color outside of the lines, examples of which have been offered in large volume throughout this thread.

I don't wish to point fingers or attack the developers at the moment because, until JP fanfest, everything boils down to speculation. This being said, -if- they have chosen to introduce one or more gender locked races I believe this is a huge step backward for a development team that has, in my mind, shown itself to be forward thinking when it comes to dated views on gender roles. To suddenly do an about-face and implement pin-up ultra feminine bunny girls and (hypothetical) super masculine lion dudes with no options in between simply feeds into all kinds of video game tropes that this team has proven themselves to be better than.

For clarity, this is not to suggest that I believe pin-up bunny girls and beefy lion boys should be excluded from the game. I find toxic anti-femininity and anti-masculinity to be just as distasteful but the point is not to alienate people when there is simply no solid justification for doing so. The lore argument, as previously noted, is weak at best. As someone who comes from a development background, the workload-related arguments also bewilder me. All the work that had to go into implementing the ears and feet for Viera females (an amount of work that should not be understated/underestimated) can most certainly be used in part if not directly for the males. Moreover, implementing the male counterpart of a race for which you've already implemented females is certainly no more work than creating an entirely separate male gender locked race.

In closing, I've not really added anything unique to the thread here but more hope that someone from the development team might see my post as an addition to the overwhelming voice that wants to avoid going down this path. I also hope that the producer and his team are smarter than this and at JP fanfest a clear path is revealed toward playable male and female genders for Viera and any other race they may be adding in the next expansion. If some insurmountable obstacle exists that prevents them from doing this then I believe it would have been far better to simply hold their cards and wait on implementing Viera until they could do so fully.

[Brynne]

To suddenly do an about-face and implement pin-up ultra feminine bunny girls and (hypothetical) super masculine lion dudes with no options in between simply feeds into all kinds of video game tropes that this team has proven themselves to be better than.

For clarity, this is not to suggest that I believe pin-up bunny girls and beefy lion boys should be excluded from the game. I find toxic anti-femininity and anti-masculinity to be just as distasteful but the point is not to alienate people when there is simply no solid justification for doing so.

You said this way better than I could've - thank you. I'm really tired of this outdated gender policing. Just gives us all the options and let us decide for ourselves.

[Unpronouncable]

If we are to take the Dramaturge at his word, then it's safe to assume that male Viera will be relatively androgynous in their appearance considering how it's impossible to tell them apart from girls up until the age of 13, hell it was even brought up in his 'Viera physiology' segment so there's no doubt that it's meant to be indicative of their appearance. As for the prospect of Viera being genderlocked, I'd like to think that the people making the decisions know how implementing a Korean trope would be destructive to the game's image in the west plus the sheer backlash it would generate both at home and overseas. Their Japanese playerbase has been pretty vocal as well about their disapproval of genderlocking last I heard.

[Lauront]

If we are to take the Dramaturge at his word, then it's safe to assume that male Viera will be relatively androgynous in their appearance considering how it's impossible to tell them apart from girls up until the age of 13.

Why? The text doesn't even imply that. It's just saying that up to that point, the gender is difficult to tell. Puberty is also where differentiation between the sexes kicks in for humans. Now consider a culture where clothing and hairstyle might not play a big role in differentiation between the sexes (whereas with hyur, they do, even at that age), and it's easy to see where this might be going.

[Shougun]

If we are to take the Dramaturge at his word, then it's safe to assume that male Viera will be relatively androgynous in their appearance considering how it's impossible to tell them apart from girls up until the age of 13, hell it was even brought up in his 'Viera physiology' segment so there's no doubt that it's meant to be indicative of their appearance. As for the prospect of Viera being genderlocked, I'd like to think that the people making the decisions know how implementing a Korean trope would be destructive to the game's image in the west plus the sheer backlash it would generate both at home and overseas. Their Japanese playerbase has been pretty vocal as well about their disapproval of genderlocking last I heard.

Why? The text doesn't even imply that. It's just saying that up to that point, the gender is difficult to tell. Puberty is also where differentiation between the sexes kicks in for humans. Now consider a culture where clothing and hairstyle might not play a big role in differentiation between the sexes (whereas with hyur, they do, even at that age), and it's easy to see where this might be going.

Yeah I'm going to go with Lauront (Edit: and Billy and Theodric lol), I don't see that line meaning it has to be anything special. Many young humans, irl humans lol, look similar until they have a chance to grow a bit more. There are many animals that radically change when their time comes to their own sort of puberty processing. Humans, irl again, radically shift at puberty both male and female (on average at least, obviously exceptions to the rule but the biological concept is pretty consistent).

There is nothing unique about Viera's explanation except that "it's harder to tell until they hit puberty" where in you could say females move one way and males the other just as humans do (except more extreme for Viera).

Not that I'm saying it's not possible for the males to be feminine, androgynous, or even masculine, but I don't see anything unique about that line except that it's what humans do but to a bit more extreme extent (you can tell male and female apart fairly consistently even before puberty in humans (without having to check the reproductive organs), but the task becomes exceptionally easier once puberty has taken place).

[Unpronouncable]

Why? The text doesn't even imply that. It's just saying that up to that point, the gender is difficult to tell. Puberty is also where differentiation between the sexes kicks in for humans. Now consider a culture where clothing and hairstyle might not play a big role in differentiation between the sexes (whereas with hyur, they do, even at that age), and it's easy to see where this might be going.

It tells us that sexual dimorphism among the Viera is ostensibly much lower than that of the other (playable) races, puberty doesn't come into it aside from making it easier to distinguish the genders by breast-growth for example. If it wasn't meant to be indicative of their appearance then why even bring it up in the first place?

[Shougun]

It tells us that sexual dimorphism among the Viera is ostensibly much lower than that of the other (playable) races, puberty doesn't come into it aside from making it easier to distinguish the genders by breast-growth for example. If it wasn't meant to be indicative of their appearance then why even bring it up in the first place? Short answer, because it is.

Actually it does the opposite.. imo.

It says at post-puberty sexual dimorphism IS a thing.

Only when they're children do you look at their face and go "hmm not sure", although I doubt the lore writer meant it as "we can't tell, if we checked" just that physically until puberty they're more similar. Humans have this, to some extent as well. Men get MUCH bigger (usually), with all their muscle mass and stench coming along for the ride. Females growing other things and other changes. To us this isn't that big because we're used to it but just compared children to adults, we look massively different and it's all because of puberty.

The lore admits puberty is a thing and admits it creates distinctive differences. I doubt they'd write that line if the males were basically bosom-less females.

You write the line because there is a radical shift, like humans, except it's possible its even more radical because we're in a fantasy game.

[Unpronouncable]

Actually it does the opposite.. imo.

It says at post-puberty sexual dimorphism IS a thing.

Only when they're children do you look at their face and go "hmm not sure", although I doubt the lore writer meant it as "we can't tell, if we checked" just that physically until puberty they're more similar. Humans have this, to some extent as well. Men get MUCH bigger (usually), with all their muscle mass and stench coming along for the ride. Females growing other things and other changes. To us this isn't that big because we're used to it but just compared children to adults, we look massively different and it's all because of puberty.

The lore admits puberty is a thing and admits it creates distinctive differences. I doubt they'd write that line if the males were basically bosom-less females.

You write the line because there is a radical shift, like humans, except it's possible its even more radical because we're in a fantasy game.

So it was rather stated as a justification for having there only be one child-model for Viera as opposed to two (does this game even have non-Hyur child models?). I mean sure, though skipping a single child model would hardly make much of a difference imho.

[Lauront]

It tells us that sexual dimorphism among the Viera is ostensibly much lower than that of the other (playable) races, puberty doesn't come into it aside from making it easier to distinguish the genders by breast-growth for example. If it wasn't meant to be indicative of their appearance then why even bring it up in the first place?

Well no, it doesn't tell us anything of the sort, because the same thing applies to humans as well... puberty makes all the difference, and not just due to breast growth. As to the why, based on some speculation I've read, it probably has something more to do with the way certain parts of their anatomy manifest, which is consistent with how this functions in rabbits, but I don't wish to say much more about it here. Another way to take it is what I mentioned - they may not differentiate child genders based on clothing or hairstyle, whereas hyur (and presumably many of the other FFXIV races) do.