Gender locked race?

[Berethos]

It will get coverage that most likely wont be all that favorable for ShB.

That BDO and Tera commit a greater gaming sin and having classes gender-locked is barely a blip now on the gaming conversation radar, and was rarely more than a moderate complaint when the games were first debuting.

Internet outrage is notoriously short lived over most things...and ultimately, an aesthetic-lock on a character type is typically one of those things, especially when it doesn't impact gameplay.

Also, it's unlikely to change their current course. If we are getting both genders of Viera, we will find out soon, and if we aren't, then that is what will happen. We are approximately 4 and a half months out, if the male side of the race isn't in the works, it isn't coming, and the level of outrage the playerbase would have to collectively reach for that to change would be significantly higher than we are going to see.

[Melichoir]

That BDO and Tera commit a greater gaming sin and having classes gender-locked is barely a blip now on the gaming conversation radar, and was rarely more than a moderate complaint when the games were first debuting.

Internet outrage is notoriously short lived over most things...and ultimately, an aesthetic-lock on a character type is typically one of those things, especially when it doesn't impact gameplay.

Also, it's unlikely to change their current course. If we are getting both genders of Viera, we will find out soon, and if we aren't, then that is what will happen. We are approximately 4 and a half months out, if the male side of the race isn't in the works, it isn't coming, and the level of outrage the playerbase would have to collectively reach for that to change would be significantly higher than we are going to see.

There are exceptions to the Gender locking. In Tera, the female characters who were gender locked were also pretty much the 'magical forest girl' trope. They were small childlike and were pushing the innocent angle. In games like Vindictus, genders are locked cause youre playing a named Hero (Technically). Im not usre of BDOs case, but Gender Locking does happen. However it is not a popular concept in games and is seen typically as a negative on the game rather than a positive, even with lore.

Furthermore, I think youre underestimating player base feelings. We've had the last 4 months be nothing but a slew of player backlash against large companies over many of their design decisions. While Im not saying its gonna be "Diablo Immortal" all over again, I think we can see a trend where players are starting to say "Fine, if yorue not doing what I want, then Ill stop playing your game." where it used to be more along the lines of "Fine, whatever. Stupid devs."

You are right. If they havent made em, by now and dont reveal at FF, thats that. They wont be in game. At that point itll be up to players to decide what to do. And I do beleive some players will unsub, while some players will remain bitter over this and cause some commotion. And 8 months down the road, itll likely be something thatll be brought up when takling about something terrible the base disagrees with. Meaning, it wont be something thats forgotten easily. Which is why I suggest that if they do not have plans for male Viera, that the devs should just pull the band aid off now and not try to do it at the last Fan Fest. Because that bitterness will only be exemplified if they feel like they got cheated by ambiguous details and interpretations where the devs couldve clearly stepped in and said what was happening.

Just consider how much talk this thread is generating over male Viera, and how much that talk hypes up speculation for the final fanfest. Now imagine that those glitches referring to Hrothgar never happened. That they remain unnamed. FF roles around and they say "No male Viera but heres a Hrothgar!" I dont think its hard to imagine therell be a lot of mixed feelings over that.

[Berethos]

Furthermore, I think youre underestimating player base feelings. We've had the last 4 months be nothing but a slew of player backlash against large companies over many of their design decisions.

Player backlash against major, game play impacting design decisions. Server woes. Duping issues. Lack of end-game. Hyping a version of the game that doesn't really exist, followed by practically patching in more bugs than they started with.

You'll excuse me for not thinking that something as relatively minor as an aesthetic implementation of a race (which is, ultimately, what gender differences are when jobs/classes are not locked behind them) is going to generate significant amounts of internet outrage.

[Shougun]

I think theyd still end up with damage control if the did this.

Oh I wasn't saying genderlocking is the slam dunk route lol (both genders would be), I was just saying that I think even now they could cut a lot of the damage off. Even if they announced it at fanfest, I think they could half or more the outrage with select wordings.

It'll depend on if they go "don't you guys have cell phones?" or not haha. If they're prepared, and prepared to remedy the issue later, I think an effective salve to stave off real damage is available (not impervious but "should do okay" lol).

Since people were talking about the outrage I was just pondering methods they might quell it into a neat little ball in the corner (by saying hinting at what they want will come). In fact I would believe they've a plan on unlocking the races already IF they were to start out locked, or have at least heavily considered it and are weighing fan response.

Also, it's unlikely to change their current course. If we are getting both genders of Viera, we will find out soon, and if we aren't, then that is what will happen. We are approximately 4 and a half months out, if the male side of the race isn't in the works, it isn't coming, and the level of outrage the playerbase would have to collectively reach for that to change would be significantly higher than we are going to see.

Yeah whatever happens will happen, we're on a ship without the rudder at this point lol.

I imagine if they did genderlock them they already have plans to unlock them later, reason being why two races come gender locked is as we all surmised limited resources (expensive to make basically 4 beautiful skeletons). Why two races now rather than one complete single race?

If I had to guess, FFXIV has a lot of variations of pretty yet if we got a fairly beastly race (even if it was just a Lupis/Pantera BLESS like lion/wolf) it would be one of the most oddball of the races. Why would you want something out there specifically like that? Well because we already have all the race equivalents to WoW that are pretty and popular, especially with Viera coming, so to steal the Undead, Orcs, Trolls, Tauren, and other "weird/ugly/different" races we would finally have a FFXIV equivalent to them. So maybe SE is trying to take advantage of the leaking ship while it's hot (WoW). And split because Viera female is a huge draw, even if people are upset about male viera there will be /loads/ excited still for female viera (or begrudgingly going female viera lol).

That's not to say there wont be an outcry, this thread is obviously a sign of that, but that's why I suggested they might have played this game of WoW race siphon, huge player desire creation, and a long term plan to add the missing genders in when resources allow.

Alternatively SE drops both genders of both races and we all cry and whisper Yoshida's name at night with little shrines to his image. Yoshi-P, Yoshi-P, Yoshi-P. lol

Anyway, what we really can do well right now is FULL SPEED AHEAD.

[Rokke]

That BDO and Tera commit a greater gaming sin and having classes gender-locked is barely a blip now on the gaming conversation radar, and was rarely more than a moderate complaint when the games were first debuting.

Once upon a time, when TERA was still fresh in the west the player characters were almost even as far as gender pick went. It began to tilt when it became more commonly known how much of an advantage it was to play an Elin (on PVP servers) and costumes/emotes released were increasingly female only. I quit around the time Brawler was released. And there were complaints, both from the west and the east that Brawler, designed & originally teased with a male human NPC, was released female only. That aside though, these days Tera and BDO are both dead games. Why use them to defend this lol

[Tsumdere]

Once upon a time, when TERA was still fresh in the west the player characters were almost even as far as gender pick went. It began to tilt when it became more commonly known how much of an advantage it was to play an Elin (on PVP servers) and costumes/emotes released were increasingly female only. I quit around the time Brawler was released. And there were complaints, both from the west and the east that Brawler, designed & originally teased with a male human NPC, was released female only. That aside though, these days Tera and BDO are both dead games. Why use them to defend this lol

Not to mention a lot of people who were jaded by gender locks left silently because if you spoke up, you were called names absolutely unrepeatable on these forums.

[Shippuu]

Since were still in the pre-order phase of the game, you will see cancellations regarding it

Not if people redeemed their early access items that come out March 1st, a month before any male Viera announcement. Redeeming that code waives getting a refund lol.

Again, consider a marketing perspective : Would you, a game dev, Go against what your fans want and introduce something that will directly impact the hype being generated for your upcoming xpac all because of superficial lore that is kinda flimsy at best?

Did implementing Au Ra go against what the fans wanted? It certainly wasn't Viera. Where was the backlash there? Did implementing no new race in Stormblood go against what fans wanted? What about adding only 2 DPS jobs in Stormblood, sure didn't give what 50% of the players of the game wanted there. Just because a subgroup of players don't get catered specifically to doesn't mean it's some huge affront to the mass fanbase of the game. Are there people who would be upset at no male Viera? Absolutely. But there's plenty of players who were already upset that it's Viera in the first place and would have rather seen something else.

Theres no hype in hrothgar currently among the fan base. No in game mentions except via glitches and subtle retcons, no mention of them from any previous Fan Fests, no artwork or dialogue regarding them from devs.

It's almost like they wanted it to be a surprise....so of course there isn't going to be any hype. And there's already a lot of hype for them despite us knowing almost nothing about them.

[redcurrant18]

Did implementing Au Ra go against what the fans wanted? It certainly wasn't Viera. Where was the backlash there? Did implementing no new race in Stormblood go against what fans wanted? What about adding only 2 DPS jobs in Stormblood, sure didn't give what 50% of the players of the game wanted there. Just because a subgroup of players don't get catered specifically to doesn't mean it's some huge affront to the mass fanbase of the game. Are there people who would be upset at no male Viera? Absolutely. But there's plenty of players who were already upset that it's Viera in the first place and would have rather seen something else.

The difference is that back then it was Au Ra which were teased using Yugiri, with no mention of Viera in the storyline up to that point. People only discovered that Viera were at some point considered being added to the game after Au Ra was officially confirmed. Viera have been teased using Fran, but we've had nothing at all to suggest Hrothgar specifically, or any other lion race except for several vague symbols that I couldn't pick up on at first glance. There is more hype for Viera than for Hrothgar for the obvious reason that we have known Viera were coming for far longer than Hrothgar, which was only discovered days ago because of a glitch.

That being said, if you're on the fence like I am, hold off on preordering until you know you're getting your money's worth. Getting a refund from game companies and stores is a hassle, so if you're not sure its better to wait until later. A pair of earrings isn't going to mean much when they eventually jack up the EXP boost on certain worlds to last until level 70, which I predict will probably happen.

[Melichoir]

Not if people redeemed their early access items that come out March 1st, a month before any male Viera announcement. Redeeming that code waives getting a refund lol.

Guarantee you not everyone has done that, nor has everyone who is considering pre-order done so yet.

Did implementing Au Ra go against what the fans wanted? It certainly wasn't Viera. Where was the backlash there? Did implementing no new race in Stormblood go against what fans wanted? What about adding only 2 DPS jobs in Stormblood, sure didn't give what 50% of the players of the game wanted there. Just because a subgroup of players don't get catered specifically to doesn't mean it's some huge affront to the mass fanbase of the game. Are there people who would be upset at no male Viera? Absolutely. But there's plenty of players who were already upset that it's Viera in the first place and would have rather seen something else.

Yes, people did complain, but accepted it begrudgingly along the lines "Well its FFXIV, maybe no viera." No new race in SB is a non-point because its been never stated that they would implement a new race every xpac. DPS point is also a non point. Theres no argument saying they need 3 every xpac. These are all apples youre arguing with in a situation of oranges. And, to a point, there were people upset at every single one of these things.

The trouble you run into with your points is this: There are no gender locked races in FFXIV. In 2.0, they gender unlocked two races. This sets player precedent and expectation going forward. There is no solid lore in the game currently that says no male Viera ever. None of hte devs, including Yoshi P, have not said definitively no male Viera when they are fully 100% aware there is a huge demand for this. This creates ambiguity regarding something that the player base is showing heavy interest in. SE has already demonstrated quite readily to gender unlock or make gender neutral things if there is a demand (glamours/hairstyles/etc), again setting player expectations. These are but a few points that illustrate that this situation is nothing like the examples you set forward which make those poitns moot.

As I pointed out before, if they made the bunny costume available for males over player demand, what do you think is going to happen with a player race if they gender lock Viera?

As for plenty of players upset over Viera? Im sure there are. But theyre not being all that vocal over it, even before the Viera reveal. Yeah, you are right that some people are upset, but I would hazard more people will be upset over them pulling a switch on expectations at the final fan fest.

It's almost like they wanted it to be a surprise....so of course there isn't going to be any hype. And there's already a lot of hype for them despite us knowing almost nothing about them.

This is pretty much silly nonsense. "Were gonna keep somethign absolutely secret. I mean so secret the only way people will know about it is if something bugs out and despite doing this will actually impact presales negatively by shortening enthusiasm period for a part of our product while throwing a larger hype train of players under the bus."

From a business perspective, they wouldve put out small bits and pieces, jsut like they did with Viera, to start drumming up hype and speculation. But surprise surprise, theyre not doing that with Hrothgar. This gets even more peculiar since there is a growing expectation among players for male Viera. So what was there plan? Just let that expectation and demand build up more and more all the while sitting on what they really want to give us and not giving any clues r context or etc so when they reveal it, it comes out of left field? That sounds like brilliant marketing.

[cicatriz313]

I'm sure everyone concedes that having both genders of any race we get would be the better option. But I think it's pretty ridiculous if you think there's going to be a huge blowback all over social media if they announce hrothgar, akin to the diablo immortal announcement.