Thread: YoRHa/NieR alliance raid 5.0

This is going to be so awesome!

Originally Posted by Dyvid

A Sci-Fi action game doesn't mesh will with a Fantasy RPG game.

Except when the game is NieR: Automata... oh wait.

Originally Posted by Alexandre_Noireau

I can critizise their decisions.

You may do so, your ability to can do so is entirely dependent on your skill and knowledge, and doing so before it's even out and just calling it a tumbler fic, shows where that skill of yours ranks.

Originally Posted by Alexandre_Noireau

We've seen "future content" a lot, for like, 5 years already. Do not call a tomestone what is not: New/Future.

Same applies to 24 man raids.

What? Are you saying the new raids story isn't future content and you can already judge it? What?

Originally Posted by Voltyblast

everything is brand new...except a lot of stuff is as common as grass.

Can someone do a study to see if people saying the pattern of new content that fits into a nebulous mold like "dungeon", "quest", or "trial" being not good enough as it's not "new", are the same people salty over radically new content like BLU or those that were upset at Deep Dungeons and the Hunt system when they came out?

Originally Posted by Alexandre_Noireau

I mean, this expansion, the garlean imperial palace could perfectly be our 24 man raid.

Why or how would the final part of the MSQ (or maybe something way later like 5.6 or even 6.0, who knows 5.0 isn't out yet!!!!!) be the 24 man? That would be like making Kugane the 24 man.



Okey, seriously you people are annoying at this point. If it's not MSQ, it's fanservice. That's what this game is, Crystal Tower was not OG content, not even close, Void Ark was also chock full of references, so many references. This game is nothing but a good MSQ and references to other games. You people are literally complaining that you don't like the fundamental concept of this game! If that's the case go play another mainline that was released years ago because you can't get over it.

Hmm, somebody showed up way more in my response then he should have... I wonder why?

Originally Posted by Auryan

Thank you for that. I just can't wrap my head around some of these "complaints". I get it that they wish for more XIV original content (but have no problem with Bahamut, Diabolos, Alexander, Crystal Tower, World of Darkness and all other crossovers),.

You're missing the point too! We paid (and still are paying) for Final Fantasy, not Nier, not Yokai Watch, not Garo, not anything else. We are interested in Final Fantasy. Bahamut, Diabolos, Alexander, Crystal Tower, World of Darkness are all from Final Fantasy and like we said, it's fun seeing the original RPG bosses be taken to a 3D space. Like what's next? A Persona 5 raid tier? Or maybe we get to rescue Princess Peach in some jump puzzle quests? We just want Final Fantasy to be... Final Fantasy. Is it this hard to understand? Like I'm sure the 24 man will be good and I'll run it anyways although I am entirely justified that I'm getting less Final Fantasy in my Final Fantasy.

Originally Posted by Skeith9

You may do so, your ability to can do so is entirely dependent on your skill and knowledge, and doing so before it's even out and just calling it a tumbler fic, shows where that skill of yours ranks.

Maybe. But i've also seen quite of this cheap, uninspired, lazy and unoriginal content being made over and over in this game.

Originally Posted by Skeith9

What? Are you saying the new raids story isn't future content and you can already judge it? What?

No, im saying they are not "new". New raid will be: 3 wings/tiers. Released at .1, .3 and .5 patch. Will have catch up gear, weekly locked out. All raids will consist of 3 corridors and 4 bosses, most of them, straight paths and circular or squared arenas, it will probably re-use massive number of assets and mechanics from previous raid tiers in a more dumbed down manner. You can hype about the "story" all you want. It could be amazing, it could be absolute garbage, that is not my point here.

Originally Posted by Skeith9

Can someone do a study to see if people saying the pattern of new content that fits into a nebulous mold like "dungeon", "quest", or "trial" being not good enough as it's not "new", are the same people salty over radically new content like BLU or those that were upset at Deep Dungeons and the Hunt system when they came out?

Hunt System was and is still bad because: It's not the over world content many wanted (higher challenge) and player interactions where clumsy at best during it's release, not to mention the obtuse and unituitive spawning mechanics... And that it was kinda useless? Let alone grindy. It's still basically hiden FATEs.
Deep Dungeon: I like it, but that doesn't change the fact is just reused assets and RNG level design with RNG like progression in the most lazy design way: Proceduraly Generated Enviroments. Honestly, is not like it's bad, is just... Lazy.
Blue Mage: Yeah, that discussion was 2 weeks ago. And it's awful btw.

You didn't mention Eureka~

Originally Posted by Skeith9

Why or how would the final part of the MSQ (or maybe something way later like 5.6 or even 6.0, who knows 5.0 isn't out yet!!!!!) be the 24 man? That would be like making Kugane the 24 man.

It would be more like making the enemy capital the 24 man raid. You know what a raid is even? Oh, wait, you think we actually have RAIDS. That's cute. What was i saying was more related as to: Why we need all this concepts from other places and worlds where our world is interesting enough. Why the need to go so outside our MSQs, Lore, Worldbuilding, etc, when we have potentially interesting and very closely related to the main story events raids all over the place. You know why the Binding Coil is so praised till now? Because it was deeply connected to our world, our story, the main story events, etc. It was important. Void Ark lacked this, but also was a really good show of our world, and had the space to do all the references in the world and nods to other titles, being respectful of the franchises, etc. There i draw the line.

Binding Coil, Crystal Tower, Void Ark and even Alexander are not remotely the same as Ivalice or Omega in terms of "fitting" into Hydaelyn and "World building". The only these last two are kinda good now, is because in the last tier they turned back into the main storyline or important world events. Crystal Tower was severely criticised about this since it ended up being a time bubble, it served it's purpose to explain a lot about the Allag. We need a lot more of Binding Coil style thought. I still remember Bahamut's roar at the end cutscene of ARR, it was pretty clear the raid was a world event of extreme importance. I cannot say the rest about the style of raids of Stormblood, Alexander and Void Ark were a mixed bag in this regard, and considering YorHa is basically just the full release of the beta that was Ivalice, i can be at least unconfident of the end result. Again, my point is not that if it's gonna be good or bad: It's if its gonna be Hydaelyn or not. And no, just saying that it is because the director says so is not good enough.

Originally Posted by Skeith9

Okey, seriously you people are annoying at this point. If it's not MSQ, it's fanservice. That's what this game is, Crystal Tower was not OG content, not even close, Void Ark was also chock full of references, so many references. This game is nothing but a good MSQ and references to other games. You people are literally complaining that you don't like the fundamental concept of this game! If that's the case go play another mainline that was released years ago because you can't get over it.

One thing is to tribute a game, a franchise, remember the shoulder of the giants you have stood upon on, i love those moments, when you both recognize a reference and also see a memorable nod to a game you like, moments such at that make FFXIV a real treasure for fans and myself.
Other thing is to fan service every single franchise of your company at every turn and make non-sensical collabs in order to use the game more as a marketing platform than something else and every implementations of these just come as lazy, uninspired and cheap excuses as if they were really marking a checklist with "stuff from other games we have yet to put in there in case someone wants to say: "heh, i recognize that." Sorry, but that doesn't pass a good or interesting to me. Point in case, the FFXIII, XV and MHW events. Let alone Yokai-Watch please.

Originally Posted by Skeith9

Hmm, somebody showed up way more in my response then he should have... I wonder why?

I tend to nerve white knights a lot, you know, people who writes stuff like: "Blue Mage is a masterpiece of game design" or "The game is what it is! It's just that, mediocre fan service! Im ok with that! So you should be! Accept mediocrity!"

I'll ask it once more: Is Hydaelyn so boring that we need to borrow so much stuff?

Originally Posted by Skeith9

Except when the game is NieR: Automata... oh wait.

I really got bored at that time but I know well enough to say one particular thing: it's set on earth, real earth, just a trillion years later (I forgot the exact date, I think it was 11k years later?).
Do you know what means? It means that Eorzea, a fantasy realm invented for the sake of this game, a fantasy world where it has its own rules, a fantasy world where there are different races, is going to be tied to our earth as a potential canon. Is this the first time that something like this happened? No: Drakengard 1 has an ending where you go to Tokyo - which leads to the Nier games - but it's not shoved up to our throats and it's actually well implied and explained. What are they going to say here? That humans got to Eorzean to escape the alien invasion and suddenly they forgot about earth?

My point with this is that Nier: Automata, a game world set in the real world, is going to be canon to Eorzea, a fake world, and as far as I know, "metagaming" references are pretty much disliked...so now suddenly they are? I don't care about the game's plot of both games but even I would think "it's pretty dumb". Why not make a crossover with kingdom hearts? It's all about world travels, it fits the world. Or even Dragon quest? Sure the style is incredibly different but it's another dimension we can buy it.

It's also just hard to watch having such a realistic and futuristic setting mesh with the fantasy world of Eorzea...feels like those old movies where someone goes back in time and it's all about the stranger trying to fit in. It's old and not really fun.

Originally Posted by Skeith9

You may do so, your ability to can do so is entirely dependent on your skill and knowledge, and doing so before it's even out and just calling it a tumbler fic, shows where that skill of yours ranks.

And yet he can freely judge it: it's called "An educated guess", because we have no physical and undeniable truth of what's to come but, making the above mentioned "educated guess" and noticing how the patching and the content releases were made until now, we can deliberate that the expansion is going to be similar - if not identical - to the previous ones. If you're not sure here's the patching archives https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...patchnote_log/

TL;DR playing the games for 5 years gives you a good insight of what's gonna happen.

Originally Posted by Skeith9

What? Are you saying the new raids story isn't future content and you can already judge it? What?

Like I said earlier, in his defense after 5 years of playing the game gives a good insight of what's gonna happen. He might be wrong but there's also a good chance he might be right...he played it for 5 years: it's been the same since 2.0. It's called educated guess and for all we know it could be just recycled story bits for the sake of fanservice. We don't know BUT we could be also right. Right now? Each odd patch is a new 24 man raid and each even patch is a new 8 man raid + tomestone change. That is not changed until now and it won't change for 5.X.
Unless, again, we are wrong and suddenly everything is changed in which case we would welcome it with open arms - as long as it's polished and functional.

Originally Posted by Skeith9

Can someone do a study to see if people saying the pattern of new content that fits into a nebulous mold like "dungeon", "quest", or "trial" being not good enough as it's not "new", are the same people salty over radically new content like BLU or those that were upset at Deep Dungeons and the Hunt system when they came out?

I'm not complaining about content being new - not entirely at least.
I'm complaining about content being not polished or improved from the predecessor. Almost everything "new" feels (and eventually shows) to be either a downgrade from the previous installment or just the same stuff and we're at a point where we are tired of this.
I mean, you talk of deep dungeons hunts and Blue mage: POTD was an okay experiment and it kept being relevant as another way to level up but HoH is practically the same. Removing 20 floors and adding a couple of new spells don't exactly make it fresh. It makes it a copy cat.
Hunts were innovative and I even did them back then, but it was so easily exploitable and so hard on the server that it felt like they didn't test enough: it was pretty common for little groups of hunters going around ninja-killing rank A and B (before the changes) without letting others know and crashes were a big issue as well (sometimes entire areas weren't accessible due to constant crashes). And it hasn't changed until today but it's not as relevant as before.
And Blue Mage? I'm upset because it's a very fun class, I enjoy learning skills - despite the bullshit rng - and It's really interesting how the spells work but, once again, it feels unpolished and untested: many spells are weak, cannot dungeons "because", and can't even use it as to progress MSQ. And their reasonings made no sense either so it feels like being unpolished rather than actual fear of toxicity and stuff.

Want more examples? How about the overworld? The zones are still empty despite being larger and larger, and yet nothing is in them! Beast tribes are a joke, from 5 in ARR we only have 3 and the quests have gotten really boring and similar. What about fates? As useless as ever, and yet they keep adding them and make it relevant in everything we do.
I'm not complaining because the new stuff is new: I'm complaining because the new stuff is going to be the same or worse than before, usually the latter: SB had triple the budget of HW and yet HW delivered so much more in terms of novelty (flying mounts, 3 new classes, a new race, normal raids, POTD, etc) even if not all of them were great (Diadem and partially POTD).
if ShBring could improve on what's already there - and I mean actual improve, not improve by removing 1 or 2 things and not improve by making it look different - I think people would be less doubtful about future expansions. So far it's not the case.

Originally Posted by Skeith9

Why or how would the final part of the MSQ (or maybe something way later like 5.6 or even 6.0, who knows 5.0 isn't out yet!!!!!) be the 24 man? That would be like making Kugane the 24 man.

....why not? I mean wow, that would be actually something different! The final quest is actually done as a 24 man raid! It would be a fantastic diversion from the mold, it would be a drastic change!

Also, WoW had Siege of Orgrimmar as a raid, so Kugane as a 24 man? Totally possible.

Also while we're at it what about adding savage 24 man raids too? That's something new that I think is worth a try.

Originally Posted by Skeith9

Okey, seriously you people are annoying at this point. If it's not MSQ, it's fanservice. That's what this game is, Crystal Tower was not OG content, not even close, Void Ark was also chock full of references, so many references. This game is nothing but a good MSQ and references to other games. You people are literally complaining that you don't like the fundamental concept of this game! If that's the case go play another mainline that was released years ago because you can't get over it.

Hmm, somebody showed up way more in my response then he should have... I wonder why?

I told you why I don't like the content, I told you why I feel it's unpolished and I would tell you more if I could, but all you can say is that we're annoying and we're complaining...so that's your point? Screw reasoning and valid points, screw actual criticism and feedback: we're complaining and we deserve nothing in return!

Somebody shows to be a bigger white knight than they should be...I wonder why?