Revelations from Keynote II

[Anonymoose]

I'm just wondering if you or someone else can answer this for me: do we have anything to confirm either way that the other shards are similar to each other, or even copies of each other?

What we have confirmed so far is that they were identical copies at the moment of the great sundering, but have been on very different - but simultaneous - paths ever since. Theoretically, the different balances of Light/Dark, the Source getting rocked by 7 Calamities, and the butterfly effect should ensure the worlds have little in common by today. (Theoretically.) The First was shown to be different in the way Arbert and Co. had similar, but different, job titles and abilities. (Their names and gear were borrowed from Eorzeans so they'd blend in, though.)

Also, has it been noted anywhere if a soul can potentially manifest itself in a new corporeal form if the original form is unavailable?

As far as we've seen proof for? If the soul has the Echo and can transcend the flesh and death, they could force themselves into another living person's body, extinguish them, and warp their body to look like their old one. But that seems like a terrible thing to do. If you had clones of yourself it ought to be pretty easy. (Solus - perhaps actually Emet-selch, perhaps not - actually thanks Varis for conjuring up all those clones and saving him the trouble of warping other bodies to look like him.) If you had a powerful technologist like Amon or Aulus maybe you wouldn't need the Echo? Maybe? And then there's whatever the Warriors of Darkness / Unukalhai are doing, I guess. They all died and then showed here with physical forms. That was ... just never addressed.

Uhh... Maybe Y'shtola? After going into the lifestream, when we (Well... The Elementals) brought her back there was no corporeal form there to house her soul. Which suggests one was created as she was pulled from the lifestream, albeit imperfectly (Due to the blindness and what not)

I think Y'shtola just used a risky teleport spell and got "stuck", no? Her body/soul should still have been entwined, even in aetherial form. I think it's being awash in the great torrent that is the Lifestream for too long is what damaged her.

[Kalise]

I think Y'shtola just used a risky teleport spell and got "stuck", no? Her body/soul should still have been entwined, even in aetherial form. I think it's being awash in the great torrent that is the Lifestream for too long is what damaged her.

Not quite.

The "Risky" teleport spell WAS in fact meant to take her into the lifestream.

With the risky part being, it's not at all certain that you will actually get out again and, if unable to get out soon enough, your soul will just lose all traces and be part of the lifestream (I.e. Dead in the same manner that everyone (Eventually) dies and returns to the lifestream)

Though, there's not really much information about what happens to the physical body during this spell. Given that all the times where we see someone's soul separate from their body when they die (ALC quests for example) it does suggest that the body is left behind.

While with Y'shtola's (Forbidden) spell there was no trace of her at all at the scene, no body or anything aside from her Aethereal Trail.

So it's hard to say if she has a new body or the same one. Since, as far as I can recall, there's no other mentions of someone being able to enter the lifestream with their body. Ascians might have entered it but they give up their mortal bodies and then have to possess new ones. Even the story in Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Hard) is about creating a new body for her fiance because all she had was his head (Also, who tf just leaves a friend alone with their fiance's HEAD after he just died?) and his soul was in the lifestream.

There's certainly a possibility that she was able to bring her body into the lifestream and then it was pulled out with damage thanks to the brutal torrent of it. But at the same time, it's also equally possible that the spell would break the body down into pure aether in order to power a spell of such magnitude of forcibly shunting the soul into the lifestream along with an excess of aether to create a new body upon leaving.

It kind of surmounts to that whole Sci-Fi teleportation trope I guess. Wherein you have teleportation such as that from say, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, where Mike Teavee's body is broken down into tiny pieces and then sent to the receiver and put back together. While on the flip side you have Star Trek where your body is broken down completely and a brand new one is replicated at the receiver.

Which one it is, it's hard to say with such limited information about the spell and the events when it was cast.

[Ceridwenae]

What we have confirmed so far is that they were identical copies at the moment of the great sundering, but have been on very different - but simultaneous - paths ever since. Theoretically, the different balances of Light/Dark, the Source getting rocked by 7 Calamities, and the butterfly effect should ensure the worlds have little in common by today. (Theoretically.) The First was shown to be different in the way Arbert and Co. had similar, but different, job titles and abilities. (Their names and gear were borrowed from Eorzeans so they'd blend in, though.)

If they were identical copies could it follow that locations are, to some extent, similar, even if they've been somewhat altered in some way as a result of those calamities (as in, somewhere is still identifiable as City X but that wall over there is in a different place)?

[ObsidianFire]

If they were identical copies could it follow that locations are, to some extent, similar, even if they've been somewhat altered in some way as a result of those calamities (as in, somewhere is still identifiable as City X but that wall over there is in a different place)?

I'd say probably not. Calamities are more then just... an earth-quake. We're not talking, "cities are laid out differently" kind of differences. We're talking "continents are in different places with different climates" differences.

This is especially true of the first several umbral Calamties. The 1st Calamity was so long ago that no one knows what the world was like before it. Just that it was a total "system reset" of society and politics. And to make matters even more interesting, no one apparently knew about magic back then.
The 2nd Calamity was a year long volcanic eruption that blotted out the sky with smoke and ash and lightning. Mankind fled into caves to wait for the skys to clear. They called on the Twelve which lead to them discovering magic at this time. And again, there's a "system reset" of society.
The 3rd Calamity was when the sun grew huge and dried out the world. Crops failed for years and many lush green areas became wastelands. It's currently thought this is when the region of Thanalan became like it is today.
The 4th Calamity wasn't a natural disaster so much as it was a societal one. The power generator of the Allagan Empire was broken by a gigantic earthquake and the Allagan capital was swallowed up by the earth. This lead to the collapse of the Allagan Empire and another "system reset" for society.
The 5th Calamity was essentially an ice age. Glaciers covered much of the land and icebergs were common place. This probably was even worse in Ilsabard as it's further north then Eorzea is.

So the Source has had all this stuff happen to it, while the Shards probably have not. If anything, the Shards probably don't have the "system resets" the Source does when it comes to culture, so they probably have a more modernized lifestyle. Their land probably hasn't been through anywhere near the abuse the Source has either. Or if it has, it's probably on a much more localized scale and they probably didn't get hit with all of these.

[Iscah]

Not quite.

The "Risky" teleport spell WAS in fact meant to take her into the lifestream.

With the risky part being, it's not at all certain that you will actually get out again and, if unable to get out soon enough, your soul will just lose all traces and be part of the lifestream (I.e. Dead in the same manner that everyone (Eventually) dies and returns to the lifestream)

Though, there's not really much information about what happens to the physical body during this spell. [Whether it is transported or built anew] it's hard to say with such limited information about the spell and the events when it was cast.

I don't think the information is that limited, and it points to the body being 'carried' in aetherial form. Urianger explains it to us when he first works out that Y'shtola must have used the spell to escape.

URIANGER
The very first that man did conceive to traverse great distances, and the ancient precursor to all methods of travel that utilize the Lifestream: Flow.
The spell entaileth the reduction of the corporeal form into its constituent aether, that the caster might enter the Lifestream, and ride its currents thereby. Unlike the teleportation magicks of modern times, it requireth not a lengthy incantation. That Y'shtola should choose to employ such a spell bespeaketh the need for haste.
[But] know that the scholars of Sharlayan forbade the use of this spell─and with good reason.
The caster hath but limited control over his course. For every mage who came safe unto his destination, another would be set adrift in the Lifestream, never to emerge.

And for Y'shtola's own remarks on the experience...

Y'SHTOLA
A long soak in the Lifestream followed by a long journey... I would not recommend it to anyone.
But rest assured my strength is returning to me. I shall be back to my former self ere long.

Y'SHTOLA
One does not simply “drift” in the Lifestream; it is a constant struggle to hold on to your very essence. The experience has hardened me in ways I can ill explain.

[Ceridwenae]

Just for Fun: Let's outline the evidence for Time Travel vs the case for Shard Travel.

Time Travel
Evidence of Time Travel in the Past

• Thancred's line about "this place having changed, and not for the better" can be interpreted as Time Travel related

That last one is what poked my last couple of questions. The answers made me lean toward time travel more definitely.

One thing I'll note, most of the above examples were specifically part of the MSQ.

Yeah, this is what's truly important. I almost don't fuss over the hows and whys as long as everyone playing has a good chance to follow them. I want equality in the MSQ for all!

Evidence For Shard Travel in the near future

• During the chat with Krile and Matoya, they established that the souls "aren't in this world", which could imply travel to another shard (but I'll admit this could also imply time travel).

As of this point, I'm saying it's both. Both will happen! We will time travel to a different shard, probably a currently broken one but before it's broken, fix it so it doesn't break, replace the balance over everything, go forward twice over for reasons, and then go back home and win. Somehow, and not necessarily in that order. It's all parts of Back to the Future. Let's hope people we know don't start to disappear. Also, just how linear does this game treat time travel? How much does time travel actually screw with things? Is it even wise to do it? Just because we can does it mean we should? I'm looking forward to any philosophical debate on it (in or out of game).

[CaesarCV]

I could write a gigantic essay on this (and perhaps I will at some point when I have more time) but one thing that bugs me about the whole Time versus Shard Travel Debate is something that kind of showed up in Claymore65's (quite excellent) collection of evidence on the matter. Namely that the Time Travel evidence is all vague and out of story whereas the Shard Travel evidence is Explicit and In Story. I mean, just take a step back and think about that.

The evidence for time travel so far is a couple of cryptic lines that can mean many different things along with a picture of a hooded mysterious figure that kind of looks like a character from a storyline who had generic assets, and even that doesn't necessarily mean time travel. Is there some smoking gun I'm missing?

The evidence for shard travel so far is a whole patch storyline related to the First Shard full of foreshadowing, one of the explicit main villains of Shadowbringers going to the First Shard, a character who explicitly went to the First Shard being revealed to be majorly important in it, and a story about bringing darkness when there is literally a world where we know is too much light. Which world? The First Shard! Which is connected to all of the previous points!

I feel kind of like I'm taking crazy pills or something? Like, isn't it kind of obvious to go with the explicit in story evidence over incredibly cryptic lines? Sorry if this came off as a little more incendiary than intended, but it's been bugging me for a bit ha ha.

[ObsidianFire]

In addition to that, I'd say the Shard Travel evidence that is in the Main Story is itself the evidence against Shard Travel happening in general. Or at least, Shard Travel for the Scions (and the extreme majority of characters). There's a few requirements a person needs for Shard Travel (as presented in the Main Story) and they are pretty exclusive.

The first requirement needed is the Echo itself, specifically the Power to Transcend Worlds, as well as the side ability that seems to come with/because of it, being able to hold your soul together without a body. Very, very few people have this.
The second requirement needed is the "renunciation of the flesh". In other words, a person forcibly separates their soul from their material body and rely on the Echo to not dissipate into the Lifestream/Aetherial Sea. This keeps a soul from properly dying by not returning it to the Lifestream. The only thing is, this is a soul. Interacting with the physical world is impossible at this point. In order to do so, a soul needs to posses a body. This lets them have a physical vessel so they can interact with the physical world. It also seems to make it easier to "resist" being pulled into the Lifestream.
The third requirement needed is a Crystal of Darkness/Light. This is what lets someone get to the place in between the Shards so they can travel to the other Shards. It should be noted that it is possible to posses bodies without a Crystal of Light/Darkness. However, not having one means a soul can't flee to the Space Between the Shards. The Ascian Overlords and the Warriors of Darkness all have Crystals of Darkness/Light. The lower level Ascians (and most Echo users it seems) do not have these. It is possible to kill someone possessing a body if the possessor does not have a Crystal of Darkness/Light and there are not any dead bodies that can be possessed.

This makes Shard Travel possible for only a very small group of people. In fact, the only person we know of who has a Crystal of Light now is us. We're pretty much the only person who isn't an Ascian that could Shard Travel. The only problem I have with this is that the expansion trailer and the expansion art seems to be focused on the Scions and they don't even have the Echo. So if they are going to Shard Travel, it's going to be for reasons that probably are not in the game yet. I'm not going to say it couldn't happen, just that all we know about Shard Travel so far makes it seem like Shard Travel is something we'll never do as it would mean leaving behind pretty much everyone we know. They would have to do a lot of lore finagling to make Shard Travel for people without a Crystal of Light possible.

[Kalise]

Well... This issue with "Shard Travel" relying on the Echo is only for travelling between shards of your own volition.

In order to hold your OWN soul together without a body, you need the Echo.

However, the souls of all the Scions have been taken by someone or something else. It would not be impossible for there to exist some form of outside source of Echo or Echo-like power, that could reach across shards and not only separate a soul from their material body (Without destroying said body) but also hold the soul together while in the Lifestream while pulling it to a specified location.

It would of course, necessitate ungodly amounts of power, in addition to some form of host for the souls at the end, but there's nothing to suggest that such a thing cannot exist.

[Fenral]

I think if we do any sort of inter-shard travel, it would almost certainly have to happen as a Roleplaying instance featuring one of our departed Scions, and not the WoL themselves traveling in such a manner as to break Aetheryte-based teleportation. While cities and cultures and people are perhaps vastly different, it stands to reason that at least some of the geography would be consistent enough between shards and the Source to allow the new zones to work as stand-ins for the First in a playable instance capacity.

Not sure how we're going to end up reunited with our fellow Scions for the Trust system, but I suspect there is misdirection involved in the not-even-really-a-preview images we've seen.