Revelations from Keynote II

[Iscah]

If this theory is correct, that would require every player to have not only started the first alliance raids, but to have actually finished them, otherwise this catboi is going to be so far out of leftfield as to present major storytelling problems for those who do not raid.

I definitely think that IF it happens, it's going to have to involve some time travel to get around the issue of players not having played/completed the Crystal Tower storyline yet. In fact I don't think I'd be so fixed on it if there hadn't already been hints dropped that there might be a time-travel plot coming - I'd probably be arguing that he can't possibly be back so soon - but of course if he's from The Future then it hasn't been "so soon" for him!

And while the Crystal Tower is called a "raid" it's really just a big dungeon, certainly at this point when everyone is so overpowered. It doesn't have the higher difficulty that you might associate with the activity of "raiding" being something separate to standard gameplay.

It's also worth noting that anyone who has skipped the Crystal Tower storyline is already missing a segment of an ongoing character's story, as this is where we first meet Nero again after the events of the Praetorium.

So, there's likely some sort of gameplay mechanic > lore happening where we bring enemies down to 0 HP just because it's more obvious that they're finished with than if they drop down to their knees and stay there in the fight (Like happens on some occasions), while in actuality we don't kill all of the enemies we beat, likely only actually killing beasts/monsters while just pummelling people into submission.

I'm also inclined to think we don't defeat as many small enemies as the game shows. If you were adapting this into a non-interactive story form, there'd probably be a lot less killing and a lot more sneaking into places; leaving guards tied up or magically bound rather than dead. Not just marching through the front gates and striking down the entire garrison of probably-conscripted soldiers.

[Mansion]

Well if it is tied to Crystal Tower somehow, couldn't they just make it a MSQ requirement? They nerfed the FATEs giving your crystals part recently, so there's nothing complicated unlocking these, let alone completing the Raids themselves...

[Ceridwenae]

Yep, @ Iscah and @Mansion, I agree. Crystal Tower isn't exactly hardcore anymore, and certainly could be added as a requirement, or we can even "revisit" it in terms of people who have been before and "visit" it for first timers, with appropriate dialogue changes. It's one way to circle that square of storytelling.

It doesn't sit 100% well with me, though, to have players complete something that was not necessary to complete previously in order to make the current story make sense. It's just not a deft way of telling a tale. I can't in good conscience say it's a particularly clever move, and that's the chief reason I don't think it can be G'raha in the picture. Honestly, I just want smarter storycrafting and telling. That's not to say it can't happen and I can definitely be wrong, but there's a bit of juggling required to make it so, and that fussing is just a lot of going around the houses when there is likely a much more simple explanation as to who's in the picture.

[Daralii]

Yep, @ Iscah and @Mansion, I agree. Crystal Tower isn't exactly hardcore anymore, and certainly could be added as a requirement, or we can even "revisit" it in terms of people who have been before and "visit" it for first timers, with appropriate dialogue changes. It's one way to circle that square of storytelling.

It doesn't sit 100% well with me, though, to have players complete something that was not necessary to complete previously in order to make the current story make sense. It's just not a deft way of telling a tale. I can't in good conscience say it's a particularly clever move, and that's the chief reason I don't think it can be G'raha in the picture. Honestly, I just want smarter storycrafting and telling. That's not to say it can't happen and I can definitely be wrong, but there's a bit of juggling required to make it so, and that fussing is just a lot of going around the houses when there is likely a much more simple explanation as to who's in the picture.

They've done it before with the Coils and Alisaie, CT and Nero, etc. It wouldn't be anything new.

[Guiballad]

In the event that the Mysterious Figure is actually G'raha Tia and he's suddenly relevant to the MSQ i really doubt that SE is gonna be like "ok so you have to do this raid that used to be optional but now you have to because otherwise you wouldn't understand the plot".

My bet is that it would be something like this: the events of the Crystal Tower happened. Even if it wasn't your WoL's story it was a story that happened. The game already states that there are many high level adventurers around that could fill parts of our role and i don't think there's anything in the CT storyline that demands the presence of the actual WoL. So if you did it prior to the story moment where it becomes relevant then the game acknowledges that you where there and you did it and seeing G'raha is a reunion moment. But if you didn't then they would need to stop for at least a moment and explain the important parts to you. But the thing is if the CT plot actually becomes relevant they'll probably stop and summarize it anyway because for a lot of people that was ages ago.

It can be a bit... clunky but there's a lot of simple ways to integrate it into the MSQ without demanding a detour from a chunk of the players.

[Ceridwenae]

My bet is that it would be something like this...relevant they'll probably stop and summarize it anyway because for a lot of people that was ages ago.

It can be a bit... clunky but there's a lot of simple ways to integrate it into the MSQ without demanding a detour from a chunk of the players.

Yes, this is what I meant (sort of) when I said 'we can even "revisit" it in terms of people who have been before and "visit" it for first timers, with appropriate dialogue changes. It's one way to circle that square of storytelling.' And yeah, it's clunky. Which is why, even if it's possible, I don't like it. I'm just putting it in my cons column against the theory because it just seems a bit much for someone who yes, had some importance, but was not important enough to be in our MSQ - if you see what I mean. If G'raha is a Chekhov's Gun and is our mysterious voiceover of recent patches, he should've been in the MSQ in some way already to bear absolute relevance to those selfsame MSQ lines. And if he hasn't (afaik, he's raid only), then there's some groundwork to be laid hard, otherwise the story in terms of his presence risks incredulity. He can, of course, be mentioned by characters such as Cid or Nero if they comes back into MSQ plots proper, but then we're potentially wasting time on exposition, or alternately, not giving enough weight to G'raha's role. It's messy, clunky, and there's simply got to be better candidates.

They've done it before with the Coils and Alisaie, CT and Nero, etc. It wouldn't be anything new.

Yes, but this is that in reverse. Is there precedent for it?

(and this is why I like these lore threads! I love this sort of discussion, and I'm really happy to be able to take part in it, even if my lore is subpar in comparison to the rest of you!)

[Fenral]

I've thought about it, and honestly, I don't want it to be G'raha in that quasi-Ascian getup. Especially not with the Shadowhunter in play, since I can't imagine him caring much for the hosts of the Ascians he's taken out. I can already see how that's going to play out...

But that said, there's no putting the catman back in the bag now that others have backed the theory up, so here goes:

It's messy, clunky, and there's simply got to be better candidates.

There kind of aren't, though. Male Miqo'te are enforced as "rare", especially in 2.0 where there are only eight of them in the entire game aside from a couple unnamed merchants and guards. Starting with the rest: A'aba Tia is dead, the Couerl King is a FATE boss, the three U tribe men are hardly major, Nazha'a Jaab is in an extremely difficult-to-unlock quest, and you probably didn't even know K'rhid Tia existed. Of those, only one character uses Face #3, and that's U'khuba Tia, who is both entirely too small-time and already has the wrong skintone and customization options. (We can also rule out present-day Scion V'mah Tia, of Team Arenvald, who uses Face #1 in addition to being as tan as the cat pictured at left.)

Which leaves G'raha Tia: Archon of Sharlayan, Student of Baldesion, heir to the Allagan Royal Eye, and de facto arbiter of Syrcus Tower and its surrounding environs. Cid flashed back to him and Mide during the Omega storyline, and he also has minor (flashback) relevance in Eureka, apparently, which would make sense as he's one of only a handful of named Students of Baldesion we've ever encountered. He's already on a completely different level than the rest, and already has an "in" in the form of Krile, who could facilitate a provisional introduction to tide us over until 5.0 fully commits to his presence.

And all that would still be on the table (for later, even) if we didn't have a facial match to go on. If it's a new character, he's using G'raha's face model (which is unique in game assets, but built off of Face #3), and if it's an old character, it could only be G'raha.


Continuity in FFXIV has generally been handled in such a way that there's a grace period of sorts after a major character from side content is introduced in the MSQ. They don't break out the spoilers immediately, but they will expect your reaction to meeting a character like Estinien or Alisaie to involve going back and starting and/or finishing whatever content they played a major role in. Estinien's story ends with him missing-presumed-alive and Alisaie's story ends with her departing on a long journey (as does Nero's in CT), so it's not exactly unprecedented for characters who join the active party in MSQ to introduce a bit of a tangle in continuity if you then go back and finish their sidequests.

It's also interesting that you mentioned Estinien as a counterpoint, as aside from one variable line in 2.5, most of the palling around you do with him happens in Heavensward proper. If you've been playing Shadowbringers already, gimme a copy. :P

[Ceridwenae]

It's also interesting that you mentioned Estinien as a counterpoint, as aside from one variable line in 2.5, most of the palling around you do with him happens in Heavensward proper. If you've been playing Shadowbringers already, gimme a copy. :P

Honest, I've not (though I wish I had)! I only brought him up because if you hadn't done DRG 30-50 there's different dialogue when you do meet him, and then you get to be mates and whatnot afterwards in HW. It's just that active spending time with him before stuff goes down is important. It's also why I mentioned Thancred - in that the game ensures you spend some time around the Ifrit shenanigans with him so you even if your starting city isn't Ul'dah, you appreciate the ramifications of what occurs. And these chaps are both MSQ intros, which is of key importance. Same with Alisaie, she's an MSQ intro. Cid is an MSQ intro. Nero is an MSQ intro. Krile is an MSQ intro (first mentioned "off-camera" in Minfilia's linkpearl call to her, iirc, in ARR). I need precedence for a previously raid-only character to then hold great importance (I'll admit to an assumption that someone who is on the ad poster holds great importance) to the MSQ, without needing to branch off from it into raiding to have said importance. I have't seen that groundwork set out in the MSQ yet, so I'm not yet fully convinced the unknown character is G'raha.

You, I and anyone else on this thread might know who G'raha Tia is, what's gone on with him, etc., because we've done extra stuff outside of the MSQ. It won't follow that everyone does, which is presenting the storytelling knot. I'm not, of course, saying it's 100% not him either, because I can't do that. I just find it awkward if it is because of the sheer amount of fancy footwork required to prevent him from potentially MacGuffin'ing in to the MSQ unannounced. And it's not to say that can't happen, but it's getting on a bit to make sure the groundwork is set - so I need Cid or Nero (or both, for the fun of it) to turn up and talk about him pronto in the MSQ. Heck, I'd take Biggs and Wedge (fairly sure I recall their presence around the catboi)! Precedence must be established, and as yet, it hasn't. I want the evidence! If G'raha is mentioned in the MSQ in our next and final story patch, then I shall be appeased!

[LineageRazor]

They can handle G'raha in exactly the same way they handled Estinien (depending on whether you'd done DRG quests), Allisae (depending on whether you'd completed Coil): a minor, one-off piece of dialogue. It could be something like:
- Have not done CT: My name is G'raha Tia, and I have been keeping watch over the technology kept within the Crystal Tower, waiting for the day it would be needed. Now, I have emerged because etc etc etc
- Have done CT: It's good to see you again, my friend! You may be wondering why I have left my post at the Crystal Tower. As it happens, I have emerged because etc etc etc

Others have mentioned time travel, and that would make things even cleaner, as far as G'raha is concerned. Whether you know him already or not, he could know YOU, since it's a future version of him. It simply presumes you'll do CT sometime in the future, if you haven't already (even if the player never actually does so during their tenure playing this game). It would be spoilers for his eventual fate in that plotline, but whatevs.

IN GENERAL, however, the devs have long, LONG since decided their stance on this: They just don't care, and will not spend much effort on keeping players from getting confused about what happens when. Players themselves are responsible for figuring that out, if they do events out of the order they were introduced. There will be no hints given, and no assistance of any kind for the potential confusion this can cause.

The first instance of this occurred when you had the ability to serve a delicious meal to the Sultana during the CUL job quests, even if she's supposed to be deceased (e.g., do the CUL quests after the dramatic cutscenes ending ARR, but before the Sultana is found to still be alive in HW). There have been other instances since, such as Estinien, Allisae, and Nero.

[Ceridwenae]

The first instance of this occurred when you had the ability to serve a delicious meal to the Sultana during the CUL job quests, even if she's supposed to be deceased (e.g., do the CUL quests after the dramatic cutscenes ending ARR, but before the Sultana is found to still be alive in HW). There have been other instances since, such as Estinien, Allisae, and Nero.

I had to double check because I came later to the game, but regarding the CUL quest as I understand it, it was in straight away in the relaunch patch 2.0. Therefore Nanamo was quite alive at that point, and the game likely assumes you level all your crafts up to 50 ahead of the release of new MSQ content in 2.1, but technically she didn't run into her mishap until 2.5.

But again, all the characters mentioned are initially introduced in the MSQ by default (assuming no DRG 30-50, although this isn't as story breaking as the main bulk of getting to know Estinien is followed afterwards in the Heavensward MSQ; G'raha's big stuff has already happened and learning second hand about something which could be so, so very important is... lame), therefore even if you inadvertently forget them, you will have some frame of reference to check back upon in your journal, or the Unending Journey if need be. It's perfectly acceptable for them to then drop back in at any time, even if they spend some time doing other things, and it's just a one-line change of dialogue that does not get in the way of the flow of the tale. I still see no precedence here for what the theory proposes.

I disagree about time travel being clean, but since I was one of those people who mentioned it, I don't discount it. However, I was very much under the impression CT has happened, whether our WoL was involved or not (mine certainly was, but my daughter wouldn't have a clue at this point).

I also disagree: I think SE do care, otherwise we wouldn't have revised lore books or interactions in this very forum. They can make errors with dates and things, but they do seem to care about getting the story across, which is why the streams don't cross, unless characters (such as Cid, Nero) are already established in the MSQ. They are the ones that need to come back and give G'raha his dues if it is indeed him. It's cleaner than time travel. Everyone who plays this game knows who Cid is, regardless of raid experience. He can sum up in just a few lines about his adventures in the CT and elsewhere if relevant, and make G'raha intros if it has to go that way. However, he needs to get a move on to avoid all the bobbins I wittered about earlier.

Otherwise this will be somewhat disappointing.

EDIT: Do want to add this, because I have to stress again, I'm not saying it's not our catboi, just that I need precedence to be established for the why and the how, and currently, I still don't see it. It could be perfectly possible he only dons that rather ascian-looking garb at the very last second for whatever reason which may be revealed along the way; but also, this is clearly the most important thing, and I'm super sure someone said this earlier in the thread but I've lost where: what happened to his ears if it is him? Has he just smushed them down flat, the poor love? That would be uncomfortable as a permanent place for them, surely! Should I order cake and grief counselling just in case? In a slightly more serious tone, of course it still doesn't mean it's not him, but it doesn't help the case - or again, unless there's precedence you guys know about where miqo cats squish their ears to the point they can't be seen (pig costume heads and the like may not be counted under this, I think)?