Button bloat possible solution

[Kleeya]

Rdm: 1. Corps-a-corps/displacement merged replaces one after it is used

And how would you choose, when being close to a boss, between adding additionnal damage with corps-a-corps, or using displacement in a hurry to avoid an aoe ? I dont know how you play your RDM, but for my part i need these two skills being available at any time.

2. Tether removed nigh useless

Tether did save my life, potentially make me avoid a huge xp loss, and even allowed me to be the only survivor of the group after a too big aggro to be back to raise everybody, several times in Eureka. I know we never see dps doing some crowd control in dungeons as long as the tank stay alive, but that dont means that this skill is useless everywhere for everybody. If you dont like this skill simply dont put it in your bars, as i have not break and drain in mine.

That being said i dont think RDM need less buttons to press (i feel way more overwhelmed when playing, for example, BRD). The scatter spam is sometimes so boring that i could even welcome more aoes combos along of the single target ones. Maybe in Shadowbringers ?

[Crushnight]

1. What’s the default? How can one choose the one that’s not default, takes away options.
2. Removes options what if I want to use one and not the other.
3. More options removed, knockback nullifcation shouldn’t be tied to a defensive cd
4. Now you can no longer shield lob a stray add when you are in melee range of another one. Bad idea.

War: see PLD reasons

Drk: 1. Decent
2. see Above.

Whm: 1. No

Sch: 1. Macros, they already change on the pet bar.
2. sounds good
3. What’s the default how do I summon the non default when I don’t want the default.

Ast: 1. Undraw is extremely useful.
2. Again, how do you use the non default action.

Smn: 1. No
2. See fairy explaination
3. See above
4. good
5. Could work

Blm: 1. No
2. No
3. No

Brd: 1 like this one

Mnk:1. Extremely useful

Nin: 1. No reduces options during fights as with all the others

Sam: 1. Indifferent on these, but seems like it could lead to problems

Mch: 1. No
2. No

Rdm: 1. No, what if I want to jump away and jump to is up, it leads to problems.
2. Not useless.

Default would be what you place on your hotbar so if summon then default is summon after pet dies if you wished for the other one to be default place that on your hotbar instead and the ability won't switch icon until used for the 1st time. When it comes with the possibility of removing skills CC skills should be 1st on the list for ffxiv yet they kept them while still offering the majority of content that is immune to them i'd rather they rework them to be more useful but if any skills need to go these are 1st i would expect to go. If your target is out of melee range then it would automatically make the ability shield lob same goes with the other tanks so long as your target is in melee range it would defer to the melee range ability and vice versa. Macros are present but the game could do this automatically and would save any new sch the hassle of grabbing them. Undraw is useful atm but if you could hold card for 35s Undraw becomes unnecessary as you can just spread every time. The aetherflow/DWT/DF merge is to prevent silliness with using aetherflow in DWT it would make things simplier without giving up the rotation. Talk to any good blm and they tell you freeze has a niche very very small but there but fire 2 and blizzard 2 aren't used in any rotation and flare never used in umbral ice so nothing is lost here by merging them to 1 button each depending on if your in umbral ice or astral fire. Like to know where one-ilm punch is used most bosses ik are immune to it and generally not a good idea to use on trash mobs.

[Crushnight]

Even with a reduced CD, the ultimate issue tying knockback prevention to any tank CD causes an issue of "You either use it for mitigation, or you use it for knockback." as the two almost never happen simultaneously.

With WAR as a prime example, they get two anti-knockbacks, but will almost never use either for those effects due to the fact that holding them to negate knockbacks that aren't happening at the time they use them naturally results in either losing your strongest anti-tank buster tool (Holmgang) or losing a ton of dps (Inner Release). Even with a shorter CD on Bulwark, losing a basically 30% mitigation buff for 15s hurts a lot to burn on a knockback.

Considering its relative weakness in comparison to actual mitigation, it'd be best to slap anti-knockback on Anticipation as a cross role so all three tanks can benefit from a non-infringing anti-knockback tool; since many tanks aren't going to rely on a medium % chance to parry alone on a tankbuster, and would give anticipation a use in fights where the majority of moves are magic.

i'll concede to that i was just trying to see how to reduce pld abilities as i personally find it has the most bloat outta the tanks and it seemed like a good idea to make bulwark more useful on it's own but i didn't think it fully through

[Crushnight]

And how would you choose, when being close to a boss, between adding additionnal damage with corps-a-corps, or using displacement in a hurry to avoid an aoe ? I dont know how you play your RDM, but for my part i need these two skills being available at any time.

Tether did save my life, potentially make me avoid a huge xp loss, and even allowed me to be the only survivor of the group after a too big aggro to be back to raise everybody, several times in Eureka. I know we never see dps doing some crowd control in dungeons as long as the tank stay alive, but that dont means that this skill is useless everywhere for everybody. If you dont like this skill simply dont put it in your bars, as i have not break and drain in mine.

That being said i dont think RDM need less buttons to press (i feel way more overwhelmed when playing, for example, BRD). The scatter spam is sometimes so boring that i could even welcome more aoes combos along of the single target ones. Maybe in Shadowbringers ?

Aye some jobs are way more bloaty than others but i looked at tether going forward in ffxiv and it seems more unnecessary unless we get more stuff like Eureka these skills validity will diminish the further we go as the devs seem adamant to make CC skills not work. As for Corps-a-corps and deplacement i could see rdm going either way it's not needed atm as rdm is nowhere near bloaty for it to be needed and was just an idea i threw out their i do not main rdm and i play it for fun thus my experience with it is limited.

[Eloah]

I can't say I agree to everything that you suggested, but I wont state that the reasoning for them is unwarranted. I just feel a little more thought needs to go into how to approach certain skills.

For instance on Monk, One Ilm Punch is "useless" but why not make it a line AoE and increase the TP, that would solve its usage issue and fix the break in Monk's AoE rotation.

And skills like Tether, Tri-bind, Blizzard II, Sleep, Repose, etc those arent "bad" per se, but skills that only have a niche usage such as binds and sleeps should be role skills, not job specific. They made so many other actions role skills why not those.

And also add some QoL adjustments instead of outright removal/combination. Like Aetherflow, for SMN at least, if it gets locked when you are in DWT, you wont accidentally press it and lose possible stacks.

[WaterShield]

There is alot of button bloat for jobs some are worse than others i've come up with a few suggestions tell me what you think:

SNIP

So what do people think? tried to envision changes that wouldn't effect current rotations much if at all

No. Seriously please don't do this. I like things the way they are.

[Beckett]

No. Seriously please don't do this. I like things the way they are.

That's great, but we're going to get new abilities with the expansion. Some things are going to have to be removed or consolidated to make room for those new abilities.

[WaterShield]

That's great, but we're going to get new abilities with the expansion. Some things are going to have to be removed or consolidated to make room for those new abilities.

If that ends up being the solution then they can also trim my sub to make room for someone else's.

Sub consolidation if you will. After all they don't need all of them.

[Vrankyl]

That's great, but we're going to get new abilities with the expansion. Some things are going to have to be removed or consolidated to make room for those new abilities.

According to Yoshi they are aware of the button bloat and are looking at more doing upgraded abilities rather than brand new ones. So we may just see a bunch of upgraded abilities and traits rather than getting any new buttons with the expac. Buttons still may be trimmed down, but nothing major most likely till 6.x.

[WaterShield]

According to Yoshi they are aware of the button bloat and are looking at more doing upgraded abilities rather than brand new ones. So we may just see a bunch of upgraded abilities and traits rather than getting any new buttons with the expac. Buttons still may be trimmed down, but nothing major most likely till 6.x.

This I would be on board with. Why do I need different skills in the first place? Why not direct upgrade skills and traits?

If someone is overwhelmed with the current buttons, I would be ok with an Option to consolidate buttons. I would not be ok with it being forced on me.

As far as the OP goes

"Rdm: 1. Corps-a-corps/displacement merged replaces one after it is used
2. Tether removed nigh useless "

I can see the case for #2 but am very against #1. There are times I want to use displacement before corps a corps. I would dislike having this option taken away.