From Scratch: 6.0 Progression Systems

**Kaiserdrache** · 02-22-2019 08:59 PM

I doubt, that there will be added with Shadowbringers many more skill tiers, we get to Level 80 with it, we reach soon the traditional max cap of 99 (100) in say around 4+ years eventually or a bit longer until then.
In the end are completely new skills that don't need any number tiers being added anyway for me alot more interesting and there are even many skils, that haven't had any upgrades yet, that I doubt, that those, which are already on tier 4, will receive on the long run much more tiers at all, because so more tiers you add, so more complex become they to implement them into your combat routine of your skill setting, unless you make them always simple minded traited replacements of earlier weaker versions, so direct upgrades.
Its nice, that SE thinks on backing up changes and such stuff always with some kind of lore, but also lore isn't safe from being changed maybe over time, if neccessary, especially when this lore makes only sense in 1 language for the game, when in other localized languages it doesn't work perhaps in this the same way, because there are no numbers everywhere in German, like described before, making the lore from language to language in that case inconsistent.
I think it would be internationally seen better and easier for the game localization, if the naming style of spells would be in all languages the same, using the spelling change-style, that SE kept using from FF8 onwards and try to reduce as much as possible in return the usage of skill tier numbers at all.

They could have done it allso by just namign the skilsl actuall by what they are doing, then we wouldnt need any numbers, nor any spelling changes.
From Fire, Fire2, Fire 3, Fire 4 to actually somethign like traditionally Fire Burst > Fire Pillar > Explosion > Inferno.

By that naming scheme you know by just reading the skill name logically, that a little Fire Burst naturally must be weaker, than an Explosion or a massive Inferno.

It's even not that the combat classes are the worst contenders with that problem I have with this numberic naming scheme - the craftign/collctors in fact are much worser, with their shear endless tiered numbered skills and traits , it just looks so silly ^^ and partwise also confusing and then are some of them role skills, some of them then again not. Definetely something, that needs an overwork in my opinion.

**Shurrikhan** · 02-22-2019 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by Kalise

Yeah, but like I said, in the game, there exists documentation that talks about how the mage council decided to do away with the awkward suffixes that they would have to completely make up a new precedent for each time a new, more powerful spell was added.

Instead favouring the more logical and straightforward naming convention involving just using numbers to denote power level of the spell in question.

I mean, talking about how currently there are only rank 4 skills as the highest tier... But what about in Shadowbringers? What about the expansion after it? The expansion after that?

What does it add to the game to run around casting "Cureuraz" as opposed to Cure X?

Personally, I did find it jarring to go to a numbered system from the iconic suffix system. But in the long run, it makes more sense. With there also being actual lore backing up the change.

Let's not forget that that bit of lore was mentioned to have been added in literally as a joke in response to the complaints regarding the naming changes over the course of ARR. Personally, I prefer the word suffixes when they have consistent meaning. -Ra Area of Effect/Expensive form. -Ga Enhanced/Function+ form. -Ja Alternate/Ultimate form. And, as we're not XI, and use potency rather than spell-ranks with less influenced damage beyond base values, we don't really need anything further than those 4 ranks. The only real advantage to the numeric suffixes is planned obsolescence by which you gradually lose access to or performance from the tools you already had, only to replace them with something that provides absolutely identical gameplay. Water I. Water II. Water III. Water IV. Water V. Water VI. Water VII. In each case: "Single target. Does [X+<10% Spell Power>] damage. No additional effects." If the plan of advancement for the next 3 xpacs is to simply offer Bio 4 through 9, then yes, numbers are good. If we're capable of a modicum of creativity, or even realize that the same spell can be silently retagged or retraited without having to offer it a new name each time, however, the benefits are nil.

Nonetheless, it has nothing to do with any Progression System, unlike...

Originally Posted by Kaiserdrache

* Complete Rework of the totally dumbed down pbsolete Materia System and make it work like the good FF7 Materia System, where materias are MEANINGFUL and are actually part of your character progression, not some kind of pointless low Stat Boosts, which could easily just get removed and no one would basically ever miss them.

I'd love to hear more about this, Kaiser, if you're willing!

And...

Originally Posted by Kalise

I feel that the overworld as a whole could do with an overhaul (Hah, puns!).

I'm liking the FATE improvement ideas, but I was just wondering if there were other options outside that scope that you'd also like to see. Anything else worth throwing out there?

**Kaiserdrache** · 02-22-2019 09:20 PM

Sure Shurri.

Quick explanation of how Materia /Substances in FF7 worked for anybody here who might have not played 7, but plays 14...
In 7, Materia wasn't gained by just destroying equipment you used, you were able to simply buy it either, or found it as loot, or from killed enemies as reward at the end of the fight.
Then you putted the Materia into a Slot of your gear and from then on the Materia gained with every killed creature also its own Experience and gained higher tiers so more you leveled up the Materia. At Max Level the Materia reproduced itself and you obtained a fresh new version at Start Level, so that you could theoretically get this way over tiem the same materia multiple times, if you wanted to give it more than one character of your party, like for example Summons..

Materia in FF7 came with several different types of Materias, each having a different color to visually differentiate the Materia Types.
Red was for Summons, like Summon Ifrit, Shiva ect. to deal massive Damage
Green for Magic Spells, like Cure, Fire, Bolt ect.
Yellow for Combat Commands/Skills, stuff like Steal, Bluemage SKills, Quadrupple Strike to hit with attacks multiple times
Blue for Support Effects, stuff like All, to turn Single Target Spells into Multi Target Spells
Purple for Independent Effects, these were the classical Stat boosters for example, basically what we have now here in a super dumbed down way, biut also other interestign stuff like Exp Plus, to gain more experience, making leveling less of a grind, Gil plus to increase more gil with kills, protect, to be more of a tank, getting attacked more, than other characters that dont have this materia on or Speed, to increase the efficiency of the Limit Gauge filling up with your attacks faster
--

With this explanation, Id like to describe now, what Id like to have for FF14 with such a system.

Materia in FF14 should be also obtained by either finding it from killed enemis (we do that already in Dungeons, so why not everyhwhere in the game), or buying them from NPCs as some kind of Gil or MGP sinks.
Same as in FF17 we should be able to improve our obtained Materia when we use them in our gear, this way these tons of useless higher tiered versions can be removed, players don't have then anymore to constantly remove and put in Materias into their equipment to replace low tier versions with high tier version.
Every Materia you use with your character, should consistently be used always with any gear you use, unless you manually remove the Materia from your Materia Slot List, so that it doesn't receive Exp then anymore.
By making a Materia Max Level, it should also reproduce itself, but Max level Materia can't be sold, only Materias at their lowest Tier, this way would everyone have to work for their Materia Progression, and nut just have to be rich ingame to just buy you everythign in an blink of an eye ...
The Reproduction should be just the little reward for maxing a Materia out, so that you don't have to buy a new Materia, if you wanted to use more of the same Materias within your character(s).
Just like in 7, should have Materias based on their effects here also own different categories.

Red for Summons - Putting a Red Summon Materia into the Materia Slot, would allow the player to use specific Summon Spells as alternative Limit Breakers, so that the LB Feature becomes a bit more interesting ancfun and more FF original by making it possible to call iconic summons for aid (after you beat them first), these Materias would drop from Primae Fights for example only) and based on at which LB Tier you use them, the summon performs different LB skills.

Green for Spell/Skill Traits - Putting Green Materias into your List, will add Effects to your Spells/Skills, like turning your Dot from a Bio into Toxin, letting the DoT be stronger, by letting your Bio stack now with that Materia up to x times, making your lots on long lastign fights alot more effective, or it increases the duration

Yellow for Abilities - Ability Materias allow you to perform actions in combat, when you either active a Skill, or when you automatically attack an enemy, or improve for example Basic Features, like increasing your Run Speed, or increasign your Maximum Jump Height, or, or let you swim/dive faster or to places, that you wouldnt be able to reach without them

Blue for Spell/Skill Modifications, that affect the target number, the skill range, the radius of an aoe, add elemental resistances, or effetcs to your attack for additional elemental damage that could hurt alot, if the enemy is weak to that element (Eureka System), Absorb Effects for negative effects, or skill/spell cost reduction/ reload/cast tiem reductions for specific skilsl/spells

Purple is for Character Based Effects, like Exp Buffs, MGP buffs, Gil Buffs, Currency Buffs, Potion/Food Duration/Efficiency Buffs.

Maximum Number of Materia Slots a player should have is limited to 5 Slots per Gear Item type. Sword/Shield is separated into 3/2 as max, so that they have also max only 5 Slots like all others.
Now comes the point where its different out of balance reason, cause in FF7 all this works, because its a single player rpg.
Here in FF14, the Matera Slot List would have a limitation - called Materia Rank Limit.

The MRL is a number, which defines, how much Materia you can have maximum with you. Each Materia has a Rank from 1 to 5.
If you have a Materia, that you want to stop gaining exp, so that its rank doesn't ris,e you have to "seal" it, and if you want to raise its exp again, to "unseal" its powers.
This is basically as gil sink replacement, for not having to remove and put back in materias anymore, and to balance the amount of Materia naturally players can have with them.

The MRL does increase automatically every 10 Levels of your Character by +5.
So at Level 70, we woudl be able to have maximum either 70 Rank 1 Materias with us, or up to maximum 14 Rank 5 ones.
Players will naturally most likely habe rather as many maxed out materias with then, than tons of lower ranked ones, but the uption to split up your materias into many weaker ones, enables to to finetune eventually your characters into ways, that wouldnt be possible, if you just put only maxed out materias into your Slot List and limitate yourself with this to only maximum 14 effects you coudl have with you within the various categories.

Not every materia effect do you want to use maybe forever, some will become less useful eventually also over time and you will want to replace them perhaps, with some other materias of lower ranks, that provide still maybe more useful effects for you at the moment. So max at Level 80 with shadowbrigners woudl be to have then up to 16 maxed out Materias in your list.
And the amount of useable Materias with variosu effects could get constantly increas,e so that players always have somethign to exchange out, to differentiate their "Materia Builds" to their personal likings/needs.

Thats kind of the basic concept, how id liek to see the FF7-version getting reused for FF14

**Kalise** · 02-22-2019 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I'm liking the FATE improvement ideas, but I was just wondering if there were other options outside that scope that you'd also like to see. Anything else worth throwing out there?

Well, outside of FATEs... They could also do more impromptu Primal raids such as how Odin occasionally comes wandering around the Shroud areas. Of course, there would be some limitations (Such as how Titan would be a cakewalk when he doesn't have a 2 ft wide platform to knock everyone off... So he would likely need some change in mechanics. Or perhaps instead of "Falling to your death" rings, he stomps and puts up spikes that impale you if you get knocked back into them...)

There could also be other events happening. Such as the Beast Tribes having to combat their kin attacking them and requesting adventurers aid, but only when people have their reputation high enough. Something to give becoming BFF's with them meaning rather than the current "Well, now I've maxed my reputation. Goodbye forever!". I was thinking something maybe like how in Rift, you'd get areas and towns changed if a nearby Rift was left unchecked and so if you wanted to go do some side quests in the town, you'd need to beat back the invasion first.

They could expand on Hunts too. I was actually thinking about what if they had like Custom Deliveries but for combat classes. That came in the form of Hunts. Where each week specific people would ask you to hunt for various things, culling a population, gathering pelts/bones/teeth etc. But in large enough quantities where you'd be spending some time to do so but get appropriate rewards.

It would also be possible for them to add random NPC into zones. That are stuff like merchants and civilians travelling between zones that occasionally get attacked by the mobs and if you save them, they give you a small reward. Like, not quite a FATE, but just a little bonus thing. (As well as putting a bit more life into the zones with all those NPC's that are implied travelling but you never see outside a FATE to escort them/protect them)

They could even mix together various types of content.

For example, doing a particular Leve has a chance to cause a specific FATE to spawn. The FATE is one of those series where completing it causes a new FATE, with the final FATE having a chance to spawn a raid Primal.

Like, perhaps you do a Leve in La Noscea somewhere. It then creates a FATE where Sahagin attack. Beating the Sahagin makes big boss Sahagin come out. You beat big boss Sahagin and he goes and gets his pet Kraken to come and take you on. After beating the Kraken the Sahagin then summon Leviathan to protect them.

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