Astro over whm ? I think not

[Dynia]

First of all the whole post about this 2 classes is MY personal opinion and how to play confortable

I read many posts here reddit what ever how bad whm is and how astro is op, but is he rly is ?

I play as main as whm since middle second expansion and im lvl 62 astro i must say playing as astro suck FOR ME, at least:

-astro -
ok, card buffs seems nice, barriers too, but tell me felllow astros how you keep mana up when there is no supports like bard in team ? I always have problem with mana with this class this is not fun to me also this class seems so SLOW and aoe heal burst is so weak

- whm -
I never ever run of mana with this class, i can spam stone whole day, i can spam heals whole day, i can spam regen and aoe heals whole day, this is mana spender machine i can die get raise who cares even then i can heal also ogc heals make me feel so fast and this heal burst is so freaking godly !! ( aoe and single target )

Scenerio 1; you died no matter how pro you are sometimes you die, to lag, brain lag, have bad day, sometimes you fail to well know mechanic, when is happen well is happen xD

after raise
Astro - lucid dreaming on cd ? Have fun watching when your team die

Whm - np thin air ? Check assize ? Check ogc heals no mana needed check cure 2 proc after cure 1 proc ? Check

Scenerio 2 : your coohealer died

-astro - you dont even have mana to raise, you need help of classes like summoner or red mage also keeping your team on trails as solo healer is harder as astro at least for me

- whm - i can solo heal any non savage content with this burst

Scenerio 3 : dungeons

-astro buffs seems weaker then whm dmg here also no aoe damage cause gravity eat too much mana

-whm thin air + holy spam + assize + aero 3 do i need say more ? xD

FOR ME whm is much better than astro


And question to fellow forum peeps, do i find good in scholar role ? Barriers seems nice and mana regen is better i have 0 problem with pet or summoner type classes

Even im astro on 62 i dont see any mana regeneration skills to 64-70 later on

[Seraphor]

How can you call AST slow compared to WHM? They have Lightspeed, and instant GCD heals.
WHM is by far the slowest healer.

It's true that AST's weakness is mana regen, but... every bad healer I've encountered has been a WHM. Mainly because all they do is spam stone, because they think they can do that and get away with it.
ASTs are a support class through-and-through.
WHMs are DPS who occasionally go "oh shi-" and then start healing.

[EaMett]

So you're saying whm has better burst healing that can help in clutch situations or make it nice to have during progression? No one ever said the opposite.

However when it comes to skill caps WHM's ceiling is much lower than the other two healers. At a higher level of play you can get more out of the other two healers (up until sustained high HPS is a requirement, then WHM does well, but that's only a couple of fights).

[Kalise]

I read many posts here reddit what ever how bad whm is and how astro is op, but is he rly is ?

Generally, these posts are to do with the classes performance in end-game raiding with a stable group and people who know how to play.

As such, AST's mana issues become negated by the fact that you'll always have a BRD for Refresh and sometimes will even have a BLM for Mana Shift. Thus, AST starts to outperform WHM due to Card buffs being so much better than what WHM brings especially when you have competent DPS players to put Balance/Spear on.

Outside of such content, WHM isn't particularly bad. It does have some good tools in its kit for mana sustain, oGCD heals as well as some nice AoE burst healing and HoTs. But again, this isn't where many discussions around classes are based. It's usually always top end content raiding, where everyone knows the mechanics and you have the ideal raid composition, wherein WHM just doesn't offer enough to make them competitive to AST/SCH whom have much more team utility via damage boosts.

[Dynia]

How can you call AST slow compared to WHM? They have Lightspeed, and instant GCD heals.
WHM is by far the slowest healer.

It's true that AST's weakness is mana regen, but... every bad healer I've encountered has been a WHM. Mainly because all they do is spam stone, because they think they can do that and get away with it.
ASTs are a support class through-and-through.
WHMs are DPS who occasionally go "oh shi-" and then start healing.

Lightspeed have awfull long cd 2 min, assize have 45 sec cd, its ogc aoe heal and give you 10% mana + mana you save from free aoe heal (shorter with lilis) maybe that why whm feels faster you can insta heal after boss aoe

You cant use lightspeed after every boss aoe and sometimes they like to spam it

I will try scholar cause rng with cards and low mana regen is just annoying for me

[Kurando]

WHM is generally touted as the pure healer, but when your party doesn't need healing, thats when it becomes limited on what they can do, just DPS pretty much. AST (and SCH) bring a multitude of utility to any party composition, hence why they are part of the meta in end game content.

Also AST can extend Lucid Dreaming and Lightspeed timers using Celestial Opposition. Of course you might not use the extender just for those actions, but those extra seconds can sometimes really make a difference.

[HyoMinPark]

First of all the whole post about this 2 classes is MY personal opinion and how to play confortable

I read many posts here reddit what ever how bad whm is and how astro is op, but is he rly is ?

Yes. AST is quite a bit better than WHM, objectively speaking. It has higher rDPS than WHM does, since it brings personal buffs in the form of cards to the table, and it can easily outheal a WHM. It also has higher mobility than WHM thanks to Lightspeed and the 1.5 second cast time.

-astro -
ok, card buffs seems nice, barriers too, but tell me felllow astros how you keep mana up when there is no supports like bard in team ? I always have problem with mana with this class this is not fun to me also this class seems so SLOW and aoe heal burst is so weak

- whm -
I never ever run of mana with this class, i can spam stone whole day, i can spam heals whole day, i can spam regen and aoe heals whole day, this is mana spender machine i can die get raise who cares even then i can heal also ogc heals make me feel so fast and this heal burst is so freaking godly !! ( aoe and single target )

You always extend Lucid Dreaming with Celestial Opposition. I'll give you that AST struggles the most with mana of the three healers, but proactive Lucid+COpp usage can mitigate that even without a Refresh present. You can also time your Lightspeed usage around periods where there will be heavy healing, since it halves the cost of all of your spells. Since healing is predictable in this game, you can easily pre-plan where to use it in most fights that require any sort of heavy healing.

I also don't know how you can say AST is slow, considering Malefic I/II/III has a 1.5sec cast time, giving you up to a full second of free movement and allowing for you to weave in oGCD abilities without clipping your next cast. As for burst healing, Earthly Star dominates with a 750 potency heal to all inside of it when you detonate it under Giant Dominance. Proper planning allows for raid-wide damage to be healed in an instant, no mana, cast bar, or building up of Confession stacks required. AST also has Essential Dignity, which is more potent the lower a target's HP is, all the way up to 1,000 potency.

Scenerio 1; you died no matter how pro you are sometimes you die, to lag, brain lag, have bad day, sometimes you fail to well know mechanic, when is happen well is happen xD

after raise
Astro - lucid dreaming on cd ? Have fun watching when your team die

Whm - np thin air ? Check assize ? Check ogc heals no mana needed check cure 2 proc after cure 1 proc ? Check

While AST has mana problems, dying is not terrible if you know how to deal with low mana.

Scenerio 2 : your coohealer died

-astro - you dont even have mana to raise, you need help of classes like summoner or red mage also keeping your team on trails as solo healer is harder as astro at least for me

- whm - i can solo heal any non savage content with this burst

Unless you've been woefully neglecting your MP and not managing it properly, raising a cohealer is not an issue unless you've had to raise other party members multiple times. Even then, I've still managed. Even WHM will eventually struggle with MP if they're having to carry a party that keeps eating unnecessary damage.

I should also point out that AST isn't incapable of solo healing. They tend to be the go-to healer for any Savage or Ultimate solo-healing because they run Noct for shield mitigation and can still provide AOE raid buffs in the form of Balance, Arrow, and Spear. Since there are mechanics in higher end content that require shields to mitigate damage, this makes them a better choice than WHM.

Scenerio 3 : dungeons

-astro buffs seems weaker then whm dmg here also no aoe damage cause gravity eat too much mana

-whm thin air + holy spam + assize + aero 3 do i need say more ? xD

While WHM AOE is good, ASTs can also just Lightspeed Gravity for trash packs and still pull fairly high damage themselves. I tend to rotate: a few regular Gravities for smaller packs, and then Lightspeed + Lucid + COpp for larger ones. And then I have Essential Dignity and Earthly Star to detonate to help mitigate damage to the tank so that I can continue to use Gravity (plus RNG Lady of Crowns for another instant heal if Minor Arcana opts to not give me a Lord for damage).

In terms of cards, in dungeons you typically don't AOE them, and just give single-target cards. AOE is saved for 8-man content where there is a much bigger gain to be had in spreading them to 8 players.

And question to fellow forum peeps, do i find good in scholar role ? Barriers seems nice and mana regen is better i have 0 problem with pet or summoner type classes

Even im astro on 62 i dont see any mana regeneration skills to 64-70 later on

Not sure what the first question is about, but if it's referencing that SCH is better than Noct AST, the answer is yes. But only because Di AST is more efficient in terms of potency and mana used.

If it's asking if SCH is good, the answer is also yes. SCH is always locked in terms of a healer spot; competition comes mainly between WHM and AST. SCH has the fairy for Embrace, Eos for Whispering Dawn and healing buffs like Fey Illumination; Eos for Fey Covenant to mitigate AOE damage; Excog for an instant heal on a target when they drop to less than 50% health, Lustrate, Indomitability (which is 500 potency flat to all party members in range), and you can't beat a spread critical Adlo for AOE damage.

As I said before, your mana management comes from proactive Lucid usages and always extending Lucid with Celestial Opposition. If you haven't been doing that, that explains a lot of your MP problems.

Lightspeed have awfull long cd 2 min, assize have 45 sec cd, its ogc aoe heal and give you 10% mana + mana you save from free aoe heal (shorter with lilis) maybe that why whm feels faster you can insta heal after boss aoe

You cant use lightspeed after every boss aoe and sometimes they like to spam it

I will try scholar cause rng with cards and low mana regen is just annoying for me

When you hit level 68, you get a trait that reduces the cooldown of Lightspeed for every time you use Essential Dignity.

That being said, Lightspeed is something you plan around. You don't just use it willy-nilly. However, I believe proper WHM play involves the same type of planning for Thin Air.

Also AST can extend Lucid Dreaming and Lightspeed timers using Celestial Opposition. Of course you might not use the extender just for those actions, but those extra seconds can sometimes really make a difference.

AST always extends Lucid with COpp. And you can still use it to extend card buff by planning your card usage. Lightspeed is extended less so, I believe, since the level 68 trait can cause it to fall out of sync with Lucid+COpp, and Lightspeed's usage generally varies per encounter, since you want to try and get as much mana conservation from it as possible.

[miraidensetsu]

When I play as AST, I die and I am raised:

1. Is Lucid Dreaming on cooldown? If no, I use it.
2. Is Draw on Cooldown? If no: I draw a card and go to 2.1.
2.1. The card is Ewer? YAY! I use it. No? 2.2.
2.2. How about a Balance or a Spear? If yes, I spread it and call it a minute. No? 2.3.
2.3. Bole? Arrow? I RR it and wait for the next draw rooting for moar MP or moar MP ticks. Yet no? 2.4.
2.4. If that came here, it means that I was unlucky and drew a Spire. In that case, Redraw and repeat 2.1 or just burn it rooting for a Balance next draw.
3. Is Lightspeed on CD? If no, I correct this situation and put it on CD.
4. Is oGCD heals on (Earthly Star, Essential Dignity, Lady of Crowns)? If so, I use them when needed. With Largesse if it's available.

[Sithconjurer]

The problem is that we tend to idealize top end content and perfect play and coordination. Which exemplifies maybe 2% of the player base. In average groups with average players who will make mistakes even with content on farm and whom just generally don't play at a pro level. A WHM will always shine because that is what their kit is made for.

Yes in an ideal environment, AST/SCH pairing is the the way to go. But for the average group just happy to complete a raid boss and is going to make mistakes and need the extra padding. WHM with either other healer role is amazing.

Don't let the composition rhetoric get you down. WHMs still raid all the time. As well as the other current non-comps. RDMs, SAMs, BLMs, MCHs, and DRKs. If your FC or Static is an average raiding group pushing for you to change classes then find a FC or Static that fits you. Unfortunately alot people have a delusion that everyone plays af the top percentile, or should be, and that's not leaving game culture anytime soon. People love cookie cutters and love to emulate the best even when it won't work for them or their peers. However there are people out there who get it and understand bring the player not the class and are happy to get raid clears even if it's not bleeding edge completion times.

Unfortunately the party finder is a sad land of wierd comp bias so don't expect to get friendly groups there often. Be friendly, open to new people and experiences, build relationships and be patient and your time will come. Don't let yourself get trapped in a social circle that doesn't work for you.

[HyoMinPark]

Unfortunately the party finder is a sad land of wierd comp bias so don't expect to get friendly groups there often. Be friendly, open to new people and experiences, build relationships and be patient and your time will come. Don't let yourself get trapped in a social circle that doesn't work for you.

It’s very rare (on Aether DC, anyways) to see PFs that exclude WHMs unless the PF is specifically for speedkill or something similar. Weekly clears, Ex farms, and learnings almost never lock WHM out of a spot. At most, they’ll lock the spots to prevent doubling up, but that’s about it. I’ve done a lot of Ex farming in PF, and I’ve never seen anyone turn away a WHM unless the player themselves were bad.