SE: Please copyright takedown FFLogs.

[Seraphor]

Not necessarily. If you wipe to an Enrage multiple times, how are you supposed to figure out who the weakest link is without an external resource? How can you discern if one healer is slacking off in terms of healing or one DPS is pulling numbers from the previous expansion despite not dying? You can't.

In my experience, so long as you're not dying to mechanics all the time, you won't have a problem with DPS.
Every case of failing to put out the DPS at enrage I've seen has been down to too many deaths and associated res weakness.

Die less, DPS more.
It's easy to tell who keeps dying.

[Alistaire]

Wow, 50 pages despite someone calling OP out as trolling on like page 2. A lot of high purples in 4.x savage there OP... even an orange parse, nice.

[Miracle_Diva]

In my experience, so long as you're not dying to mechanics all the time, you won't have a problem with DPS.
Every case of failing to put out the DPS at enrage I've seen has been down to too many deaths and associated res weakness.

Die less, DPS more.
It's easy to tell who keeps dying.

There're mechanics that require pure dps, where you can't die without trying to, you have to kill things fast, or you wipe. Not enough dps - wipe, someone's not pulling their weight, means other people in your group have to do extra work in order to overcome the dps check. No one died, but wipe still happened due to someone's slacking.
I'm not talking about new players obviously, but we are at level 80 already, you have plenty of time to learn your job while you're getting there.
But we have people who just don't care, they pay their own sub and play how they want. That's their right. But please, stay away from other people then who want to clear content if you do not want to pull your weight and if you're one of them. By the time you hit 60, you are expected to know what you're doing on a class you chose to play. You are expected to know your skills and what they do. No one is asking anyone to play perfectly. Just pull your own weight and don't make others do the extra work because you were lazy.

[RoyalBeef]

Yeah, high DPS can compnsate low DPS players but only to a certain degree, there is a breaking point where it's still not enough, even without deaths. Personally I don't really care as long as we clear, I always bring my best game regardless of how others are doing. Or at least I try, ofc sometimes I derp a mechanic or just run off a platform bc my movement key gets stuck lol. I never feel like I have to do more bc someone else is slacking, bc I'm always operating at the maximum I can do anyway. Fun fact: In those cases where despite no deaths the party still hits enrage, more often than not it's an underperforming player that just ragequits or blames the party as a whole as being unfit to clear.

[Noitems]

In my experience, so long as you're not dying to mechanics all the time, you won't have a problem with DPS.
Every case of failing to put out the DPS at enrage I've seen has been down to too many deaths and associated res weakness.

Die less, DPS more.
It's easy to tell who keeps dying.

I'd have to disagree. You can have a dps that stays alive thanks to doing mechanics and healers, but they can still not know optimization.

For example a SAM could stay alive the entire fight and know where to put aoes/move for markers, but also not understand a standard rotation and go freestyle.

Nothing feels worse then knowing that everyone in your party did everything correctly and everyone brought their A-game except one guy who believes using only double midares and no higanbana is the peak of dps.

Everyone else shouldn't have to make up for one person who doesn't know how to play their job to the most of it in high end content.

Edit: I want to state that people can have good intentions and not be aware of them when they head into these I get that and I've seen it doing Titania EX. However the moment you take your step out of normal trials/dungeons/alliance raids and start playing with EX/Savage there are expectations.

Back when Seiryu EX came out I tried learning it and while I didn't die as much as when I started I was still told my DPS low (ran as an RDM to add to that). Because I didn't have down a proper rotation at the time and just did what I thought worked. I took some time, figured out my rotation and before I knew it on my 10th run I was generally in the top 3 DPS between using low level pots and eating low level food, because I learned how to optimize.

It got to a point where I grinded it out 99 times for totems and I could actually tell based on music queues how behind we were since I did it so much. That's a trait built naturally overtime and it does help to find the faults in your party.

[Alucard135]

In my experience, so long as you're not dying to mechanics all the time, you won't have a problem with DPS.
Every case of failing to put out the DPS at enrage I've seen has been down to too many deaths and associated res weakness.

Die less, DPS more.
It's easy to tell who keeps dying.

It's very clear from your statement that you haven't done savage. And upon checking, I was right.

[HWalsh]

While I don't play anything outside of FFXIV, I've heard that FFXI used to have far more challenging content than anything FFXIV has ever brought to the table. Ultimate aside. Same for WoW, where they actually have in-game parsing add ons, if I'm not mistaken.

WoW and FF XI weren't the birth of MMORPGs. I'm talking about the old school: UO, EQ, AC, DAoC - Back when even voice chat was extremely uncommon (and was a game changer for raids) - The old school way was full of wonder and mystery.

You couldn't look up builds or optimized rotations. It was possible to run into a player who had figured such out, alone, on their own, and to only gape in awe at what they did which you might've never thought possible.

Where high end bosses, over years, might not be defeated because people couldn't figure out the mechanics. (There was one such in DAoC that was finally killed, one time, between all the servers, despite hundreds of attempts.)

[Seraphor]

It's very clear from your statement that you haven't done savage. And upon checking, I was right.

According to fflogs I've barely done anything. Just proves my point that fflogs arent a good judge of player ability.

[Alucard135]

According to fflogs I've barely done anything. Just proves my point that fflogs arent a good judge of player ability.

Who said I looked at fflogs? Your lodestone profile shows that you haven't touched savage.

But if we were to use fflogs, there are two possible cases. One you raid with your FC or a static that doesn't upload logs like pugs do. But that is negated by your lodestone profile. And two, you don't do savage raids and that's why no one uploads them. And that is what agrees with your lodestone profile.

So it proves my point. You don't do savage content so you have no idea how tight a dps check is (let alone ultimate).

[ForteNightshade]

Because I come from the old school of gaming, the old school of MMOs. We didn't parse people's logs (aside from our own) and we didn't go to YouTube to look up guides to content (there was no YouTube back then) we figured things out on our own. It was an accomplishment to succeed and an air of mystery.

That disappears when the mechanics that were meant to stay hidden, do in fact, stay hidden.

You may think FFlogs is okay, but it is info you're not meant to natively have. It corrupts the heart of the game. It goes against the intention of the design.

Do you ever wonder why older games had relatively easier content? It wasn't due to devs not knowing how to ratchet things up, it was because the micromanaging wasn't possible by the player base. So they didn't have to tune them so high.

Parsers and such changed how the game was played and I, for one, liked how they were born. If we were meant to have parsed data, then the game would've been built with a parser. Period.

You do realize games were harder back in the day than they are now, yes? Nintendo Difficulty is a trope even now due to the sheer insane challenge many games provided. It had nothing whatsoever to do with parsers or guides but the limitations games had. They couldn't tell complex narratives or even execute half of what we see today. Developers got around that by making them increasingly more challenging. Ironically, FFXIV itself became easier as time went by in pure fight design. Midas dwarfs every Savage tier thereafter despite parsers being readily available. The ease of games today comes from companies assuming they'll attract more players if everyone can easily complete the content; the whole "accessibility" philosophy.

Coincidentally, FFlogs keeps Savage relevant. Why? What purpose does repeatedly clearing serve without a leaderboard? Many people aren't necessarily competing with each other but simply aiming to improve from their previous "best score." That is among the reasons SE does nothing about it. They know how much FFlogs benefits them, and they don't have to lift a finger to moderate it.

In my experience, so long as you're not dying to mechanics all the time, you won't have a problem with DPS.
Every case of failing to put out the DPS at enrage I've seen has been down to too many deaths and associated res weakness.

Die less, DPS more.
It's easy to tell who keeps dying.

What if even without deaths you have the following

DRG: 12k
MNK: 12k
BRD: 11.5
WHM: 7k
SAM: 7k

How would you go about determining the Samurai is pulling less than the White Mage? For this hypothetical, we'll assume no deaths or mechanical failures. They simply don't know a proper rotation, frequently break their combo and the like. Are you going to spend the whole fight watching how they play? Your performance will inevitably suffer attempting this. Even if you can, do you know the animations of each ability to recognize they aren't being combo's in order?

Now you may not have an issue, provided the group still clears. And good for you if that happens to be the case. You did say you run with your FC, after all. With a group of strangers, on the other hand. Those four DPS may not appreciate doing all the work. Why should they have to "pick up the slack" as it were?