SE: Please copyright takedown FFLogs.

[StarRosie]

When you opt out, that information is blurred out entirely and inaccessible.

Honest opinion. It should be opt in. If they swapped the whole system to be an opt in thing for those who WANT to be a part of it rather then the "Everyone is a part of this by default, whether you like it or not. But if you want out, ya gotta do this opt out stuff." Which, I will give credit, they did streamline and make opting out somewhat easier. But, a majority of complaints and threads like this (Troll or not.) would just sorta stop if they swapped to an opt in system. Not all, but definitely a decent chunk.

It would also just calm some folks who really care about privacy and such down. Like, every time I think about it, changing things to an opt in system is far more beneficial in the long run, for everyone, then what it is now. But, I don't know, maybe I'm missing some key info that makes such a change impossible at all levels.

[DaulBan]

It would also just calm some folks who really care about privacy and such down. Like, every time I think about it, changing things to an opt in system is far more beneficial in the long run, for everyone, then what it is now. But, I don't know, maybe I'm missing some key info that makes such a change impossible at all levels.

iirc, Kihra's opinion is (tl;dr)

Estimating the size of single threads like this compared to the size of optimization communities, though there are vocal minorities that don't like logs there's a lot more that do. From a strictly convenience point of view the logs should be opt-out then. It also lets people who might be casually curious how they're doing just see if they have any of their own stuff uploaded even if they aren't actively pursuing it. Specifically to the first point, it's true that while this might be an astonishingly long-winded thread it is microscopic compared to the daily activity in places like the Balance where there's a large number of people who're there specifically to improve based on numbers.

[ForteNightshade]

I opted out of FFlogs.

My game performance is my business and mine alone. I opted out before doing a raid so nobody will ever know.

Do I use my cool downs? Yes.
Do I monitor when I have to pop something? Absolutely.
Am I perfect? Heck no. I'm still learning.

If you were to join pugs at a EX or Savage level, how are they only your business when your performance directly impacts the content seven other people are engaged in with you? While you're absolutely welcome to hide your logs, I'm just curious why you seem almost offended by people seeing how well you do.

[FengZhou]

Many comments prove the OP's point right away about the toxic kind of minded people who use this tool to abuse others. Salt memes. Mocking 'checking of logs' etc.

Joining a group for an EX doesn't and shouldn't require logs. Savage is for the tryhards in this game, if you want to make up some reason to need a third party metric rather then your own eyes to judge a player's performance, then by all means go ahead.

These sorts of discussions never go well. I can tell when someone's not even trying to play their class vs someone who is. I'm glad they don't support dps meters and this parsing stuff. It's a blight imo.

[Seraphor]

If you were to join pugs at a EX or Savage level, how are they only your business when your performance directly impacts the content seven other people are engaged in with you? While you're absolutely welcome to hide your logs, I'm just curious why you seem almost offended by people seeing how well you do.

I see it as unnecessary micromanagement, and a bit of a cop out.

I don't upload my fflogs, so I've no idea what mine look like, if anything. But I clear EX and Savage with my FC, with no use of fflogs or dps meters, and we do the content just fine.

Fflogs isn't an adequate measure of your ability, running the content is.
Run the content, and if a player isn't doing the mechanics or playing their job well, then you can ask them to leave. It takes 5 minutes to wipe to any fight, and only a few runs to know what the problem is.

[HWalsh]

If you were to join pugs at a EX or Savage level, how are they only your business when your performance directly impacts the content seven other people are engaged in with you? While you're absolutely welcome to hide your logs, I'm just curious why you seem almost offended by people seeing how well you do.

Because I come from the old school of gaming, the old school of MMOs. We didn't parse people's logs (aside from our own) and we didn't go to YouTube to look up guides to content (there was no YouTube back then) we figured things out on our own. It was an accomplishment to succeed and an air of mystery.

That disappears when the mechanics that were meant to stay hidden, do in fact, stay hidden.

You may think FFlogs is okay, but it is info you're not meant to natively have. It corrupts the heart of the game. It goes against the intention of the design.

Do you ever wonder why older games had relatively easier content? It wasn't due to devs not knowing how to ratchet things up, it was because the micromanaging wasn't possible by the player base. So they didn't have to tune them so high.

Parsers and such changed how the game was played and I, for one, liked how they were born. If we were meant to have parsed data, then the game would've been built with a parser. Period.

[LalaRu]

...I dont care about parsers. I care about third partiets being allowed to do whatever...

They are not. If you bring parser chat in game, you are asking for actions against your account.

Not to mention I'm not that fond of how stats are calculated there. If my buff adds 3% damage to you, all that 3% belongs to my dps, not yours.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

They are not. If you bring parser chat in game, you are asking for actions against your account.

Not to mention I'm not that fond of how stats are calculated there. If my buff adds 3% damage to you, all that 3% belongs to my dps, not yours.

If they're doing 0 DPS, 0 + 3% is still 0. It's their DPS, because the amount of DPS your buffs grant them depends on how much DPS they're already doing.

[Mistyregions]

If you were to join pugs at a EX or Savage level, how are they only your business when your performance directly impacts the content seven other people are engaged in with you? While you're absolutely welcome to hide your logs, I'm just curious why you seem almost offended by people seeing how well you do.

Long story short people dont like being criticized for anything in 2019, we all joke about snowflakes and safe spaces but the culture is alive and strong. When you open yourself up to criticism by others for your personal choices two things simultaneously happen that people cannot handle. First its seen as an attack on their personal identity, and comfort level. Being a critic of them immediately somehow registers as your idealism and personal choices are wrong and bad and you should immediately give up what you are doing to join the rest fo society/status quo/assimilation/sheeple. This is far from true but this phenomenon can be seen all over western world now.

The second thing that happens in the onus is put on that person for improvement. Personal responsibility is lost in 2019, responsibility to do your part, or improve yourself through criticism is a no go. Instead they will blame others for their shortcomings, thus putting the onus on you. The victim then can call you and elitist or insert any modern identity bash that you can think of.

Criticism hurt my feels, I can't take responsibility for myself, therefore you are intolerant.

[HyoMinPark]

I see it as unnecessary micromanagement, and a bit of a cop out.

I don't upload my fflogs, so I've no idea what mine look like, if anything. But I clear EX and Savage with my FC, with no use of fflogs or dps meters, and we do the content just fine.

Fflogs isn't an adequate measure of your ability, running the content is.
Run the content, and if a player isn't doing the mechanics or playing their job well, then you can ask them to leave. It takes 5 minutes to wipe to any fight, and only a few runs to know what the problem is.

Not necessarily. If you wipe to an Enrage multiple times, how are you supposed to figure out who the weakest link is without an external resource? How can you discern if one healer is slacking off in terms of healing or one DPS is pulling numbers from the previous expansion despite not dying? You can't. Clearing the content doesn't mean much when it's easy for 7 people to carry a person, and this goes for any content except Ultimate.

This isn't to say anything about jobs that are supposed to buff the highest DPS (AST, DNC). How do you know without one? You don't, really.

You may think FFlogs is okay, but it is info you're not meant to natively have. It corrupts the heart of the game. It goes against the intention of the design.

Well, in FFXIV, there are a lot of DPS checks. When so much centers around DPS checks, suddenly parsers do matter. When you have jobs that are supposed to buff the highest damage dealer (DNC, AST), they do matter.

Do you ever wonder why older games had relatively easier content? It wasn't due to devs not knowing how to ratchet things up, it was because the micromanaging wasn't possible by the player base. So they didn't have to tune them so high.

While I don't play anything outside of FFXIV, I've heard that FFXI used to have far more challenging content than anything FFXIV has ever brought to the table. Ultimate aside. Same for WoW, where they actually have in-game parsing add ons, if I'm not mistaken.

Parsers and such changed how the game was played and I, for one, liked how they were born. If we were meant to have parsed data, then the game would've been built with a parser. Period.

We do have the data though: it's in the combat log. A parser just condenses it for us. That said, Yoshida knows players use these tools. As long as they don't harass players with them or mention them in-game, nothing happens. He's watched world prog groups on Twitch with their parsers present.

If they're doing 0 DPS, 0 + 3% is still 0. It's their DPS, because the amount of DPS your buffs grant them depends on how much DPS they're already doing.

In terms of rDPS, it goes to whomever is giving the buff. So, AST cards go towards the AST's rDPS. Anyone who receives the buffs have it subtracted from their rDPS.