SE: Please copyright takedown FFLogs.

[Oscura]

Square Enix will never enforce the ToS to its fullest extent because you will keep playing regardless of whether or not people post on FFlogs or parse you. Hardcore raiders and the like are far more likely to leave if they do not have access to either.

It's the honest truth of the matter, and why debating this topic has always been pointless. Square Enix does not care if it doesn't hurt their bottom line.

[Raldo]

Whoaaaaaaaaa

I had no idea that FFLogs had data for the people that weren't actually doing the parsing. It makes sense, it just never occurred to me. I see a lot of butthurt in here, so I just wanted to chime in and say...

Thanks FFLogs and people-who-parse! I appreciate you!

[Skogli]

i dont think you know what gathering data means in this context. The combat log is avaible to everyone in your group/instance. I can see that and note it down, with pen and paper, manually, and put it where i want if i feel funny. That doesnt have anything to do with a licence agreement.
Its like saying i cant talk about your character and whats its wearing cause its data gathering

Yeah but you're not doing that. A third party software is. Without me knowing about it. Controlled by someone other than SE. Only giving you their Word that that is all it does.

[IzzyData]

Okay, now you're just trolling.

Anybody who comes in contact with this type of information on a regular basis and is held liable for it if leaks knows better. And you clearly don't.

I was thinking the same about you.

[Skogli]

Square Enix will never enforce the ToS to its fullest extent because you will keep playing regardless of whether or not people post on FFlogs or parse you. Hardcore raiders and the like are far more likely to leave if they do not have access to either.

It's the honest truth of the matter, and why debating this topic has always been pointless. Square Enix does not care if it doesn't hurt their bottom line.

Then why not make it a feature? Why mislead people initially into thinking third party programs are illegal and just sit by when a third party is forcibly profiling them?

[Alaray]

Guess certain people here speak for Yoshida.

He's said he's okay allowing it provided there's no discussion of it in game.

But I guess some people like to hear themselves speak.

[Kaitoo]

Yeah but you're not doing that. A third party software is. Without me knowing about it. Controlled by someone other than SE. Only giving you their Word that that is all it does.

I dont know what to make of this post. So now your not about data being gathered but a third party software does it? So i guess your solution would be that SE make official parsers? Thats a neat idea.

[Oscura]

Then why not make it a feature? Why mislead people initially into thinking third party programs are illegal and just sit by when a third party is forcibly profiling them?

As I said before, if Square Enix officially endorses or creates it's own FFlogs or ACT, they have to be responsible with everything regarding it. Player harassment, how it changes the community, etc etc. Their non-committal stance exists solely so they cannot be blamed by the community if something goes wrong. As it stands now, Square Enix can simply shove the blame aside.

I will reiterate, I personally believe FFlogs should be used by statics and people who are all consenting parties. I just wish people would realize that their ideas and arguments are not unique. You can search "FF Logs" "parsing," even "ACT", albeit you'll probably find the word "action" or "act" as a word itself before ACT the parser, and you will find threads on this. You will find the same arguments. "It's illegal." "It's against the ToS." "It hurts my feelings." "It violates my privacy." "I don't like it." "Square Enix doesn't want parsers!" etc.

None of this matters. Hypotheticals, should've, would've, could've, it's all irrelevant.

In the past, and in the present day, parsers are tolerated on some level by Square Enix, and their existence is largely shoved under the rug. Parsing is constantly brought up at any time people can get their chance to ask Yoshida about them, and there are always threads on it. It is not as if Square Enix is deaf. They just do not need to care. Have a large number of players quit over ACT or parsing? No. Is there is an epidemic of harassment or shaming because of FFlogs or parsing? No. FFXIV's ecosystem for its community still thrives and continues on despite both ACT and FFlogs existing, so their existence is simply just not an issue for Square Enix as a company. They have nothing to gain by forcing FFlogs to shut down, and they have nothing to gain from block, disabling, or whatever-have-you regarding ACT.

People seem to forget that companies exist to take your money. Their actions are decided by what they can gain from you, and that is all.

[Billythepancake]

Then why not make it a feature? Why mislead people initially into thinking third party programs are illegal and just sit by when a third party is forcibly profiling them?

I imagine so its easier to punish anyone whose using the parser as a reason to harass someone. As for why it's not inherent, because only the hardcore raiders care about parses. Which is a small minority of the community.

[Skogli]

I dont know what to make of this post. So now your not about data being gathered but a third party software does it? So i guess your solution would be that SE make official parsers? Thats a neat idea.

You're getting it.
I don't care how they do it if they were to. I dont care if you know my parse. I have No insecurities about my gameplay!

I do not want it to be handled by an unofficial third party. Espescially since it's stated as a bannable offense in the ToS! Eeeespescially when it's forcing us into it! It's flawed and leaves room for abuse.
Who knows what the third party is looking at behind the covers.

SE can tell you personally today "we don't care i if you parse lol" and permaban you next week for paring because it's agains ToS.

It's not sorted.