SE: Please copyright takedown FFLogs.

[Xarion]

I'm of the opinion if someone says my damage is low that it's not harassment, and more like feedback or advice (depending how it's given) There are people who may misuse them, but its really not that common,also why punish people who use parsers that don't harass people?

[Saefinn]

I am not aware of how widespread this issue is, because it's not something I've really experienced personally. But if it is a problem, wouldn't it be better for SE to issue a statement against the use of this site for harassing other players? And announce that their GM's will take complaints in this regard seriously? There is already a "report for harassment" option. Go after the players doing the harassing, rather than the tool they're using to harass them. Because people will still be able to harass you without the tools, they other means of finding out if your DPS is not meeting their standards. They may point to your iLevel, they may observe your rotations, they may well be the other DPS and decided that they're not the problem, so it must be you. It doesn't take much to read how another player is doing, as one who tends to main healer, if it looks like the healing is down when I'm not a healer or I have a co-healer, I'll observe them and if they seem to need help, then I can offer help.

[Alucard135]

I am not aware of how widespread this issue is, because it's not something I've really experienced personally. But if it is a problem, wouldn't it be better for SE to issue a statement against the use of this site for harassing other players? And announce that their GM's will take complaints in this regard seriously?

They do. If you were to tell someone in your party that their DPS is low and harass them about it you'll get banned. The main issue that most of those complaining about it have is that they think their numbers are their own private data and think that their privacy is being violated when the site posts the numbers publicly. But what they fail to understand is that these numbers are not their own and never was in the first place, since SE owns all the data.

[Hakuro89]

I really don't think fflogs is going anywhere. It's strictly data that isn't, or rather CAN'T, harass or disparage anyone. And the fflogs site itself doesn't actually interact with the game in any way. It reads logs uploaded from a third party tool that it actually does not own or distribute, basically making it a 3rd party of a 3rd party, or a 4th party, if you will. The site by itself does not violate anything in the new ToS revisions, and I doubt they would come down on something that's not actually harming or disparaging anyone itself.

[Tharia]

I really don't think fflogs is going anywhere. It's strictly data that isn't, or rather CAN'T, harass or disparage anyone. And the fflogs site itself doesn't actually interact with the game in any way. It reads logs uploaded from a third party tool that it actually does not own or distribute, basically making it a 3rd party of a 3rd party, or a 4th party, if you will. The site by itself does not violate anything in the new ToS revisions, and I doubt they would come down on something that's not actually harming or disparaging anyone itself.

Yes people will beat me again for pointing that out, but because FF Logs is a 3rd Party of a third party, makes it even worse, since you would need by laws a contract with each party in the chain.

[Hakuro89]

Yes people will beat me again for pointing that out, but because FF Logs is a 3rd Party of a third party, makes it even worse, since you would need by laws a contract with each party in the chain.

Even if that claim was true, it's still far more red tape than what's necessary. Rules against harassment on performance is more than enough to deter poor behavior about it, there's no need to punish an entire community of raiders that haven't done anything wrong. And like others have said, even if FFlogs did disappear, something else that does the same thing would just take its place. You can't stop people from parsing, there's no way to even prove that someone is using a parser the first place if they don't say so.

[miraidensetsu]

meow

Well, I agree with you. But, while FFLogs doesn't interact with with the game in any way, it lives from data extracted with the use of a 3rd party tool that does interact with FFXIV client. And there are this rule:

Square Enix strictly prohibits the use of third-party programs or tools – including programs and tools that permit automated or “absentee” play – in Final Fantasy XIV. Accordingly, the following activities are prohibited:

- Modifying, analysing, integrating, and/or reverse engineering game software or data.
- Creating, distributing, using, or promoting utilities that interact with the game.

While this was written to make easier to ban botters, it sounds me that ACT is forbidden. There isn't any warranty that GM's will continue turning a blind eye to parsing.

[Hakuro89]

Well, I agree with you. But, while FFLogs doesn't interact with with the game in any way, it lives from data extracted with the use of a 3rd party tool that does interact with FFXIV client. And there are this rule:



While this was written to make easier to ban botters, it sounds me that ACT is forbidden. There isn't any warranty that GM's will continue turning a blind eye to parsing.

While that may be true, I still don't see how they could enforce such a rule. There's no way to tell whether or not someone is parsing unless they openly admit they're using one. And they only have access to chat logs in the actual game, which most people that parse are smart enough not to talk about it through, instead going through Discord or some other offline communication method. As far as the site itself is concerned, I doubt they could do anything about that either. They can put up a stink about it but I doubt any actual copyright action could be made, since it doesn't actually profit off of anything owned by SE. Seems more like the grey area that is ACT has leaned more towards black, which doesn't really change anything if people continue to follow the 'don't ask don't tell' rule of thumb they have been since the beginning. At least not within the game's chat.

[HazyAssaulter]

I'd like to take a moment to thank SE for the recent changes to Healers. They were obviously made to counter the toxic behavior that FFLOGS breeds. Too many Healers were overfocused on DPS, sacrificing the safety of their team, shuffling useful and critically necessary Boles to fish for cancerous Balances. However, obviously unintentionally, a new issue has arisen in the form of Dancer. People are using it to boost their fake numbers on this dumb website, even making non-DPS jobs their dance partners in the name of FFLOGS inflation! I also can only imagine how exacerbated the issue of discrimination will be since now not only will you be unfairly judged based on your DPS, but on your ability to have a Dancer pad your fake numbers. Not everyone has friends! SE, please address this issue more directly, and take down this website for good!

[WaterShield]

I'd like to take a moment to thank SE for the recent changes to Healers. They were obviously made to counter the toxic behavior that FFLOGS breeds. Too many Healers were overfocused on DPS, sacrificing the safety of their team, shuffling useful and critically necessary Boles to fish for cancerous Balances. However, obviously unintentionally, a new issue has arisen in the form of Dancer. People are using it to boost their fake numbers on this dumb website, even making non-DPS jobs their dance partners in the name of FFLOGS inflation! I also can only imagine how exacerbated the issue of discrimination will be since now not only will you be unfairly judged based on your DPS, but on your ability to have a Dancer pad your fake numbers. Not everyone has friends! SE, please address this issue more directly, and take down this website for good!

Umm... noooooooo.

Healers DPS as much as ever.

It's easy to see if they were padded. If they were, subtract 5% from their numbers... you have now un padded them. Dancer is certainly not causing issues in that way.

Edit: Oh, I see you are the OP. Wow, you're really not giving up on this.