Did the devs lie to us? Either actually make BLU OP, or unlock it

[TheRamosOnline]

I think BLU should have DF access at least - but rather than them put into normal parties, the BLUs can be matched together. So, if you queue for Haukke Manor, Aurum Vale, etc as a BLU, you get matched with all BLUs. They could even do the roulette as well, same matching. That way, BLUs aren't interfering with the normal party formation, but still have a way to get into duties.

I don't want this. I want to be able to use my cool spells to help Sprouts

[XiXiQ]

I'd be glad if they just let you queue for normal dungeons as well (I don't really see the big deal for sub-50 dungeons anyway, it will be like any DF run, some will be stupid OP, some useless), but failing that, just party them together and at least DF is an option.
That's better than no option at all.

[QT_Melon]

What I posted wasn't just to address your complaint, but also on topic for the thread.

What they did was contradict themselves.

They said Blue Mage progression included "Forming Parties and Undertaking Instanced Duties"
They also said as you quoted: "Blue Mage is the first "Limited Job" coming to FFXIV. A Limited Job is a job that is meant to be enjoyed in a solo environment and is not suited for parties."

I get that creates room for misunderstanding and confusion. When I was watching the live letter I scratched my head at it and incidentally took any "solo job" claims with a pinch of salt, because what hadn't been answered is "in what aspect is it a solo job?" if our progression may rely on grouping up.

Right, but the thing is they used emotes on top of the slides which is why it makes it more of a contradiction.

If this was about "suggested change" to Blue Mage, sure. But this is about Either make it a regular job or actually make it more like what you advertised which was a class that you could really solo.

It's why I really don't feel we should be giving them ideas to continue in something that feels mediocre in its design and further that mediocrity.

[Saefinn]

I think that's the problem. There is a mix of people who feel the design is mediocre and some that don't, some are arguing the whole concept is bad, some the arguing that it is good, but lacking in content and so on. And some argue that the existing design of other jobs is mediocre and why they welcome the Limited Job concept. But I don't think the content I was suggesting is by any means mediocre, the Extreme fights from ARR were good fun, after all, it used to be our endgame content.

I've suggested in other threads a "why not both" scenario is possible when it comes to Limited Jobs and Normal Jobs. The state of Blue Mage I think shows that it would not take a lot to make it into a regular job. If they require a specific set of spells or restrict the OP spells (depending on balance) and boost the potencies of others then it could have a regular job version. Blue Mage's current potencies bring it behind other DPS jobs at level 50, like Red Mage.

And as for solo content, it's why I suggested doing more with the Masked Carnivale and even add in solo versions of the Primal fights in there (maybe in collaboration with the Wandering Minstrel to accommodate the theme and give an excuse for the primal arena). That would give you the ability to solo them as you felt they advertised and it'd give them room to make tweaks so that they soloable without messing with the original fights, as some fights have mechanics that require more than one player, like Titan Ex. I think that's a way of getting around the desire to solo fights.

I get that your impression was that solo meant you could go out and solo anything relevent to your level, but it is clear that's not the reality. Whilst I can understand the disappointment between what you were expecting and what you got, but I think the only way SE can come out with a Blue Mage that more people can enjoy is find where they can compromise and tweak it. It might mean to satisfy your solo urge they compromise and build on the Masked Carnivale to better accommodate that experience, whilst for people like me who want more group content available, we compromise in that the content is a means to an end with the Masqued Carnivale, but we still get our content, even if it's old content. For those who just wanted to main Blue Mage may have to compromise in the customisation of the job or having it low on the DPS table and that they have to gather all required spells before they can use it to keep it viable for SE to add a non-Limited Job version. Heck they could take it one step further and make the reward of my suggested tier of Masked Carnivale be the non-limited job version of BLU.

If there isn't going to be any compromise in its design then I can just see it end up being a niche use where SE may have less of an incentive to keep it updated. If only a small percentage of players are getting good use out of it, they might prioritise something else instead.

[QT_Melon]

I don't think I mind at this point if they prioritize something else if that is the direction you are going with your logic. I don't think people should put up with that kind of fearmongering either.

It really should have really rejuvenated old content but it fell flat.

I mean Yoshi is also involved with ffxi and the Japanese audience is just as upset at how blue mage was implemented and not advertised. It's not like this is an English misinterpretation

[Saefinn]

I don't think I mind at this point if they prioritize something else if that is the direction you are going with your logic. I don't think people should put up with that kind of fearmongering either.

I'm just trying to be realistic, not make any kind of fearmongering. "What Blue Mage should be" is something a lot of people have strong opinions on. Regardless, there will be people disappointed or disatisfied or feeling their expectations were not met, but if they're going to make more people happy, there's room for them to be able to make some of these ideas an expectations work together, even if something along the lines of what I've suggested is not what they go for. If they're only trying to please a small group of people, then they're simply not going to give it as much attention as they might otherwise have done because they have to be conscious about how they spend their resources. And to me, it'd be daft to only please a small group of people for a job that was so highly demanded. What exactly is wrong with trying to find a way for Blue Mage to work for more people?

It really should have really rejuvenated old content but it fell flat.

Yet only a few posts ago, you called the idea of doing this "mediocre".

But I'm not sure what your argument is beyond "they failed to deliver on their promises". I don't disagree, whilst I was not left with the exact same impression as you, but I can certainly see how SE got this wrong.
You want them to deliver on their promises. That's perfectly reasonable.
So I suggest they deliver on Blue Mage using parties instanced duties for their progression. I suggest we revitalise old content to accommodate this instead of relying on leech parties.
And I suggest they add more to Masked Carnivale and some ways it could be kept relevent. So that there is more solo content available to BLU as it's built around MC.
And I suggest they add some of those primal fights to the Masked Carnivale to deliver on the expectation of being able to solo primals.
You agree it'd increase the longevity of content, but it'd be too mediocre.
You persist with the argument that the job was missold to you.
Now you say they should have rejuvenated old content. Great, and I agree wholeheartedly, as I've already suggested they do this, which you said was mediocre, so perhaps you can understand my confusion.

I can understand perhaps why you'd disagree with the methods I suggest or think there are better or more fun ways of doing it; even I admitted they're not well fleshed out. Heck, I'm welcome to improvements on the idea or alternative/better ways of achieving the same goal.

[QT_Melon]

I'm just trying to be realistic, not make any kind of fearmongering. "

Yeah that somehow they can't hold up adjusting the class for something they advertised as DESIGNED TO PLAY SOLO. There's discussion on its potencies and spells that may need to be reworked to make it so it actually could be played solo for OLD CONTENT.

Yet only a few posts ago, you called the idea of doing this "mediocre".

I did not, the suggestion is to actually adjust the class to be a viable solo option in content, not hand hold the devs (and I already know game development can be a pita - got poeple working in the industry for crying out loud). Tho there is the other camp that want it a main job. I think the first (OP) is way more viable than suggesting they should just kinda add flavor to something that pleased neither camp. That in itself is subscribing to mediocrity. The only reason I'm hesitant about adding it as a main class has less to do if they changed skills to fit the regular formula but more posts crying about class balance in this game - not to mention we haven't confirmed what new jobs were coming out - just heavy hints and how they work into gameplay.

The 50 spells being required to solve the puzzle of carnivale is just overall MEH, farming a spell for one thing to solve? What for? What are the actual reward/player satisfaction for it? I mean at least with parties learning the skill at the same time there seems to be much more satisfaction with the RNG, vs Atma or other places where other players got left behind.

Having said that, it's something that while I commend, at the same time am mixed due to the fact this should be also done on a solo level. A solo player should feel that same kind of reward/satisfaction with their process. Giving more into that RNG in a solvable puzzle of the week for a spell that has no other purpose than the Carnivale isn't it imo. Already had people swear off because they wanted the skills to be more viable in old endgame content. Not the carnivale or some stupid metered drop rate only for acquiring it for that instance.

Essientially I've said it before - Blue Mage was advertised to audiences as the Game Genie of FFXIV - but instead it jumped the shark :P

[Saefinn]

Ah, I think that better explains it. I was seeing it from the perspective of rivtalising old content and solo content as being about the challenge experienced from older content when it was still relevent. This is what I hoped we'd see from Limited Jobs.

If it's a case of applying an FFXIV Game Genie to do old conent, I think it'd be too different from undersizing it. Though I guess it depends how far you mean with the cheat codes. I will admit from my FFXI days in Abyssea there was enjoyment from feeling more powerful from using a Primordial Brew to being able to become so overpowered I could take on anything (except anything that charms, had that happen once, oh boy), as you'd get that god mode feel, but that was something to come at an expensive cost and only last 3 minutes. And it was something that made certain job quests fun, like for Summoner and Monk. I am not sure I would like it to be the basis for a job as I don't think I'd find it enjoyable to sustain. However, what is 'enjoyable' is so subjective that I don't think it's a point we'd have a place to convince the other. But of course, I hope with whatever feedback they listen to and how they build on the job and its future updates make people happier with the job and I guess to all of those with differing views on what it should be, best of luck.

[MOthe]

devs could make a supporter role and include blue mage/dancer.
It would be fun with all those debuffs and effetcs skills blue have.