whats wrong with wow?

[Abriael]

Abriael I am going to try to help you with something here. When you say "WoW has no more challenging content than any other MMORPG" What example do you have? try quantifying or even qualifying your answer for a change.

Your comment on Aggro mods, is actually a decient one but it is midgiving. Aggro mods haven't been used years by top tier guilds and I personally never had one or needed one. Yet it is a crutch that helps less hardcore players see more content. This was commonly used becuase people which had previously completed the content and had the gear from it where redoing the content with people were undergeared and could pull aggro based on gear seperation, this happened a lot in BC and that is when these mods starting comming out.

I dont' necessarly think that aggro mods were a bad thing in the context there were initially created and I don't think they make the game easier for the people try to push the game. Players who were more hardcore could go and do content and experience the full depth of the encounters. People who got there latter coudl get help from people who did it earlier, but the gear differential was too great and aggro became hard to balance if you tank was fresh to content trying to hold aggro vs higher geared and mabey even skilled players.

Congradulations you actually used an actual verifyable fact see how this actually starts a conversation?

Actually I don't see where your comments about aggro mods not being used comes from, considering that blizzard had to actually legitimate them by designing encounters specifically around their use (bad choice, they should have just banned them).

Maybe your personal guild doesn't use them (or maybe people just say that they don't), but that doesn't mean that they aren't widely used.

If the gear separation is too great, you mitigate it, instead of legitimizing tools that contribute turning one of the few relatively challenging aspects of the game (tanking) into a matter of just following the instructions on screen.
But of course Blizzard didn't mitigate the gear separation, know why? Because it makes them money, keeping people hooked on the game.

And that's the big problem with the challenge in every MMORPG. WoW included.
MMORPGs are based on people spending money on them on a continuated base. Many, faced with content that they cannot overcome easily, simply quit and stop paying.

This was the main reason that killed warhammer online. The game was massively based on faction-related PvP, and people that found that their faction couldn't overcome the opposition simply quit. Then the opposite faction found themselves without people to play against, and quit out of boredom. Then the first faction started dominating because more people quit on the second because of boredom, triggering more ragequits, in an endless loop of ragequitting.

This is why it's in any MMORPG company's best interest to keep content relatively unchallenging. Between MMORPG players, people that want an actual challenge are much less than those that just want to "be the hero". WoW is no exception, and if you think that it's any more challenging than the average of other MMORPGs, you kid yourself.
Some encounters in WoW have a relatively decent level of challenge, like the twin emperors for instance, but more or less every MMORPG has it's ration of those, some high tier raids in Age of Conan for instance (at least before funcom dumbed down the combo mechanics), Pretty much every COP encounter in FFXI, most Tomb Kings bosses in Warhammer online (Mythic really went on the cruel side with those, erroneously thinking that people WANTED a challenge, just triggering more ragequits instead). There are a few in every MMORPG out there. And mind you, I say more challenging than the average, but they're still fairly unchallenging compared to other genres.

By the way, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I enjoy relaxed gameplay quite often and you won't ever be able to quote me saying that WoW's problem is that it's easy (while I believe it is, that's not the problem, besides the fact that it's extreme easyness during the leveling up process tends to attract a crowd I don't like to play with), and just go to other games (racing simulators, flight simulators, strategy games and so forth) when I want challenging content.

PS:My facts are always verifiable. Some just don't like to hear them, and prefer to deny.

i would read a book if i want great story, there are alot of games out there with a very great storylines, but no one really reads them because most just dont care about the story and spam enters, for myself, i play games to enjoy the gameplay and nice story is just a plus.

The fact that you don't enjoy or prefer something doesn't mean everyone doesn't, or even the majority. Most final fantasy players enjoy storylines, that's why they play FF in the first place, and that's obviously one of the main "rewards" a final fantasy game does and should offer.

[Malakhim]

The fact that you don't enjoy or prefer something doesn't mean everyone doesn't, or even the majority. Most final fantasy players enjoy storylines, that's why they play FF in the first place, and that's obviously one of the main "rewards" a final fantasy game does and should offer.

Not to get involved further involved in this argument, but basically this.

In fact, many Final Fantasy fans would say that if you're not playing an FF game for the story, then you're doing it wrong.

Not to say the game shouldn't have any other saving graces, especially for the sake of replayability, but Final Fantasy has always(well, save the NES versions) had very character-focused narratives.

[Abriael]

Not to get involved further involved in this argument, but basically this.

In fact, many Final Fantasy fans would say that if you're not playing an FF game for the story, then you're doing it wrong.

Not to say the game shouldn't have any other saving graces, especially for the sake of replayability, but Final Fantasy has always(well, save the NES versions) had very character-focused narratives.

Which is, by the way, one of my main gripes about FFXIV. WHile the BACKstory has a lot of potential (for sure much more of that half-baked, half-copied childish and fruity excuse for a fantasy world that's Azeroth), the story we've seen so far just scratches the very surface, doesn't even get near putting the player in deep contact with the "villains" (the garlean empire, let alone the dragons). Basically it gives the impression that we're just playing a prologue, and unfortunately that's not enough to support a Final Fantasy game.

[Linnear]

PS:My facts are always verifiable. Some just don't like to hear them, and prefer to deny.

verify this one!

Actually I don't see where your comments about aggro mods not being used comes from, considering that blizzard had to actually legitimate them by designing encounters specifically around their use (bad choice, they should have just banned them).

And reason I was writing this was becasue you were using these types of mods as an example of making the game not hard. I was just stating that they make it easier on the mid range players, and do verry little if anythign for the high end players.

Personally I don't care how easy or hard a game is for casuals/semi casuals as long is it does not interfear with the difficulty of high end play. XI was just cruel on EVERYONE (cruel does not = hard), wow is nice to the casuals in leveling mid range and in wrath raiders and now are putting the hurt on the hardcores (cata hard mode 10) and being a little rougher on the casuals then before.