whats wrong with wow?

[Abriael]

FFXI has bad apples too, it just didnt seems THAT many because FFXI didnt have THAT many players compare to WoW.

The "wow has more players, so it has more bad players" is a commonly used excuse, but a flawed one. Ststistically, having more players will increase the absolute number of bad players, but it shouldn't increase their percentage.
The problem is that the percentage of "bad apples" in wow is much, much higher than in any other MMORPG (or online community at that) I've ever been part of.

I could write an essay on the reason for this (it's actually a quite interesting marketing related study case), since there are multiple, and all conspire to create a quite complex scenario that leads to the horrible community everyone can see. Some come directly from the gameplay, some from the marketing behind it.

1: WoW inherited directly a large part of the old battlenet from Diablo and Warcraft. One of the worst dens of cheaters, exploiters and generally immature players to ever taint the net

2: wow's art direction, graphics style and environment seem to be made on purpose to appease the lower end of the age spectrum. Walt Disney wouldn't have designed Azeroth any different. The horde has so many mitigating factors to their savagery and malice (more often than not reduced to comedic relief) that they could easily be renamed "the fruity horde", and so forth. The Masters of the Universe had a more grim and realistic backstory than WoW. And that says it all.

3: Every mechanic up to the endgame in WoW has been honed and refined to a single goal: no matter if you're a fifth grader or a soccer mom whose most complex gaming experience has been waving a wiimote around. You'll still be able to thrive and prosper in the game (this is what people normally refer as catering to the minimum common denominator of the gaming scenario). This means that the community is largely impacted by a wide percentage of people that simply lack the background and preparation to interact with an online social environment. Any possible (very relatively) challenging element that would normally weed out or discourage those categories of people is purposedly concentrated in the endgame, where players have already invested too much time and money on their characters to actually considering quitting without very compelling reasons.

3a: the above point creates a radical divide in the endgame between "core" gamers and casual gamers. The first category tries it's hardest to exclude and ignore the second, and the second reacts by trying their hardest to troll and annoy the first

4: between the fact that any player can easily solo to the endgame, the ease to switch servers and even to change names, players are not nearly encouraged to keep a respectful and friendly attitude towards each other. WoW is probably the MMORPG out there that gives you the most chances to behave like a complete prick with your fellow players, and still be able to get by, or even start anew with a clean slate. This means that the ones with a natural aggressive or rude inclination will not have any eelement discouraging them from letting it run amock, short of actions that would require GM intervention. And there's plenty behaviors that don't go as far as warranting the intervention of a GM, but can still be extremely annoying and disruptive.

There are many more factors, but listing them all would really turn this post in an essay. So I'll stop here. I think the scenario is already grim enough without filling further a glass that's already overflowing.

[Sushi]

1: WoW inherited directly a large part of the old battlenet from Diablo and Warcraft. One of the worst dens of cheaters, exploiters and generally immature players to ever taint the net

for me everyone is kid. mature ppl are more mature because they act more mature, but deep in their heart they are still kids. Being mature is just their way to costume themselves.

there are only 2 different kinds of people, conscious ppl and ignorant ppl.

[Abriael]

for me everyone is kid. mature ppl are more mature because they act more mature, but deep in their heart they are still kids. Being mature is just their way to costume themselves.

there are only 2 different kinds of people, conscious ppl and ignorant ppl.

While Physical maturity isn't the only factor to mental maturity, it's still a major factor. Denying it's importance or ever existence is quite flawed logic.

ok your hard mode mechanics= boss has lot of HP, long time to kill, and it hits player very hard

my hard mode mechanics = high frequency of brain activities

So you've measured your brain waves while playing wow and other games?

Playing wow doesn't require any more brain activity than playing any other MMO out there.

[Sushi]

While Physical maturity isn't the only factor to mental maturity, it's still a major factor. Denying it's importance or ever existence is quite flawed logic.



So you've measured your brain waves while playing wow and other games?

Playing wow doesn't require any more brain activity than playing any other MMO out there.

when i played ffxi and i feel everything is so slow, i can watch TV while I PT. when i fight a boss, the only thing keeps me busy is the log window. do I need to think fast? no, i just repeat and repeat what Ive done

[Atomsk]

The "wow has more players, so it has more bad players" is a commonly used excuse, but a flawed one. Ststistically, having more players will increase the absolute number of bad players, but it shouldn't increase their percentage.
The problem is that the percentage of "bad apples" in wow is much, much higher than in any other MMORPG (or online community at that) I've ever been part of.

It is the weekend. Let us not spoil it by talking about the difference between independent samples and n.

We cannot really truly compare the two games because they are aimed at different kinds of players. And many people may disagree, but WoW is wildly successful and it DID redefine what MMOs should shoot for. To ignore everything that WoW did right is completely narrow-minded. FF14 will attract other kinds of players too. People got burned out on FF11 and WoW. I don't want a clone of FF11 or a clone of WoW, but maybe something that takes the best of both worlds and makes it something that is completely its own.

[Abriael]

We cannot really truly compare the two games because they are aimed at different kinds of players. And many people may disagree, but WoW is wildly successful and it DID redefine what MMOs should shoot for.

I never said that WoW isn't a wildly successful marketing operation. As a cash cow it works perfectly. You're actually not saying something much different from what I said.
It redefined what MMOs should shoot for IF the developer wants to aim for the minimum common denominator of the gamer(loosely intended) playerbase.
Personally, as I do not want to play in the same server as that minimum common denominator, I'm much happier with games that don't aim for such a target. Or at least don't do so in such an extreme way.
I'm quite sure many agree, and that's exactly where the problem with wow (for me and them) lies.

Their target is excessively wide, and as such their community is unbearable for many that are used to (or prefer) a little more mature environment. That's pretty mcuh all there's to it.

when i played ffxi and i feel everything is so slow, i can watch TV while I PT. when i fight a boss, the only thing keeps me busy is the log window. do I need to think fast? no, i just repeat and repeat what Ive done

Which is pretty much the same thing that happens in WoW, and in every MMORPG out there. I don't remember a single MMO in which I couldn't watch TV, drink coffee, read forums on the other PC and so forth. The fact that you like a MMO, doesn't mean that you need to try and "nobilize" it by arguing that it's harder.

[Sushi]

Which is pretty much the same thing that happens in WoW, and in every MMORPG out there. I don't remember a single MMO in which I couldn't watch TV, drink coffee, read forums on the other PC and so forth. The fact that you like a MMO, doesn't mean that you need to try and "nobilize" it by arguing that it's harder.

WOW's boss fights are really dynamic and they only last about 10min or less.
there is no way you can watch TV and doing dungeons in WOW at the same time, unless your in a 20man group and is killing trash. even then while you are AFK, you prob gonna get killed if you are not careful.

[Abriael]

WOW's boss fights are really dynamic and they only last about 10min or less.
there is no way you can watch TV and doing dungeons in WOW, unless your in a 20man group and is killing trash.

Applying your same limits to other people is rather flawed logic. The fact that you don't manage doesn't necessarily mean others don't.

[Sushi]

Applying your same limits to other people is rather flawed logic. The fact that you don't manage doesn't necessarily mean others don't.

this sentence only implies me that you don't play wow, no more further argument is needed. I'm done.

[Abriael]

this sentence only implies me that you don't play wow, no more further argument is needed. I'm done.

Again, you assume a lot more than you should.