whats wrong with wow?

[Kilta_Firelotus]

@ quen

sorry that is i feel the most dumbest reason to use addons and vent. It is called PPL WILL LEARN. I did most stuff in ffxi from random groups. I got stuff done pretty well. PPl in WoW just take the game too seriously. They have massive fits on death. Who cares if you bring in a newbies player just tell them watch to watch out for BEFORE you fight. There is a wonderful thing called PLANING. do it sometime. I played WoW w/o addons only 2 untill the game better used them And not because I was a bad player. I just got lost too much whichg lessen my change in getting stuff done in limited play time.

[Abriael]

So what's the assertion here then? That because the game is simple to get into and progress all the way to the level cap, it's of poor design and quality? We're going to ignore the parts where genuine mastery and quality of play are required to be successful (eg. hard mode raiding and high-rated PvP)?

Lol at "genuine mastery" that's some "genuine" hyperbole. If you think people that do high end raiding in wow are "genuine masters" i wonder what you think of the people that execute perfect drifting shows on Gran Turismo 5, or even harder racing sims.
Those parts come too late in the game to be any influential on the composition of the wow community, or can be completely ignored (pvp).

You seem to have a penchant to warping what people say. I never said that is "poor quality" design (the poor quality is elsewhere, the ridiculous storylines and characters, the laughable art direction, and so forth), but it does ensure that the game is popular regardless of quality.
It's actually a very smart design choice to grab the target Blizzard wants and more money. Unfortunately it comes with drawbacks, primarily the extremely poor quality of the community, but that impacts only a percentage of the players, for sure not Blizzard.

I mean, what I'm taking from all of this, particularly with this sentence--"No matter if you're a third grader or a soccer mom that has trouble even with the wii"--is that FF gamers are akin to nobles and are expressing their disdain for the peasantry, as if they're somehow better than them. Is that your position?

You're the one making a "wow vs FFXI" comparison. I'm talking only about wow.
Many other games on the market are much more selective early on with their target. This means that their community will inevitably benefit from an higher percentage of players that are actually prepared to interact with an online community, as third graders and similar examples simply arent, most of the time. And they get frustrated and pushed away by mechanics that they don't have the patience to cope with.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

Ab hit the bingo.
he is 100% correct.

[Eolrid]

It all comes back down to different preferences.

So what's the assertion here then? That because the game is simple to get into and progress all the way to the level cap, it's of poor design and quality? We're going to ignore the parts where genuine mastery and quality of play are required to be successful (eg. hard mode raiding and high-rated PvP)?

I mean, what I'm taking from all of this, particularly with this sentence--"No matter if you're a third grader or a soccer mom that has trouble even with the wii"--is that FF gamers are akin to nobles and are expressing their disdain for the peasantry, as if they're somehow better than them. Is that your position?

not with all the addon ppl use for the stupidest stuff. And yes WoW is too easy to get into (unless your not a pc gamer then it can be hard). It brought in too many different gamers which do not mesh well. I didn't feel like WoW was challenging enough. I can die 1mil times and most ima need to do is repair gear at an npc. I saw literally 99% of WoW just be running dead.

I agree with both of these comments, actually.

WoW is not of poor design. If it was -- I mean, if it was something like a Rogue Warrior or an E.T. or, heck, even a Superman 64, people would ridicule it, hate it, and not play it. But tons of people enjoy WoW, despite the hate it receives, and whether or not you like it as well is just a matter of preference.

Regardless of the new MMO audience it brought in, and regardless of whether or not certain demographics know any better (like was mentioned, soccer moms and younger kids), if the game truly sucked, they wouldn't play it, either.

Like I said, I also don't enjoy WoW. I do find it shallow and boring, just like most MMOs. But I can appreciate that it did a lot of things right and earned a very large audience because of it.

I also hate, hate, hate add-ons, but that's a whole other topic.

[Paksenarrion]

I really don't understand these constant comparisons between WOW & FFXIV. And then the need to analyze opinions. Why do I prefer Pepsi while my boyfriend coca cola? While some people don't like any form of soda at all.

To make an answer short - because they are different. I'm sure there's plenty of "wrong" things with WOW, just like there are things "wrong" with FFXIV. But these things are still a matter of opinion.

And please, don't say FFXIV should add something found in WOW. That's like saying why doesn't Pepsi try and taste more like coca cola? Because Pepsi (FFXIV) wants to be Pepsi, not WOW.

This topic is like asking for people to argue.

[Quanta]

not with all the addon ppl use for the stupidest stuff. And yes WoW is too easy to get into (unless your not a pc gamer then it can be hard). It brought in too many different gamers which do not mesh well. I didn't feel like WoW was challenging enough. I can die 1mil times and most ima need to do is repair gear at an npc. I saw literally 99% of WoW just be running dead.

It was never meant to be super-challenging: Blizzard's entire design philosophy (and this applies to all of their games) is "Easy to learn; difficult to master", and it shines forth in pretty much any game you play. WoW is designed, as pointed out, for just about anybody to get into, but not everyone is going to be able to down all hard modes in <2 months or be in the top .5% of arena/rated-BG teams unless they're really good at the game, and are surrounded by other players who are also really good, and I have a hard time buying that you are part of that group. SC2 is the same way: anybody can pick it up and play, complete the campaign, play a bit of ladder, but only the best players are going to find their way into the Grandmaster (aka Top 200) league.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

death travel makes it so easy in WoW. I can die in the human starter area and runn all the way into orgimar as a ghost run around like an idiot, run to the shore and make my way to the blood elf area get a dragonhawk for my hunter die and run all the way back. I've done it 3 times.

on wegame.com look up ninjakari ninja skills (not looting) thats me playing a blood elf rogue when i first started playing (wrath launch.)

[Kilta_Firelotus]

It was never meant to be super-challenging: Blizzard's entire design philosophy (and this applies to all of their games) is "Easy to learn; difficult to master", and it shines forth in pretty much any game you play. WoW is designed, as pointed out, for just about anybody to get into, but not everyone is going to be able to down all hard modes in <2 months or be in the top .5% of arena/rated-BG teams unless they're really good at the game, and are surrounded by other players who are also really good, and I have a hard time buying that you are part of that group. SC2 is the same way: anybody can pick it up and play, complete the campaign, play a bit of ladder, but only the best players are going to find their way into the Grandmaster (aka Top 200) league.

and I care all about that.... because.......

sorry I play mmo fir fun not be in the ultra elite. And sorry being ultra elite is doing stuff W/O addons. Sorry but real gamers don't use cheat modes to down "hard modes/ bosses"

[Quanta]

death travel makes it so easy in WoW. I can die in the human starter area and runn all the way into orgimar as a ghost run around like an idiot, run to the shore and make my way to the blood elf area get a dragonhawk for my hunter die and run all the way back. I've done it 3 times.

on wegame.com look up ninjakari ninja skills (not looting) thats me playing a blood elf rogue when i first started playing (wrath launch.)

Who tries to death travel in WoW? All dying does is warp you to a graveyard; trying to run somewhere as a ghost and ressing at a nearby graveyard is just going to get you teleported to your original graveyard. Grats on wasting an hour running in ghost form?

[Kilta_Firelotus]

being a good player isn't about being in the top percentile. Good players learn the game, know their classes w/o having to be told what to do when a boss fight comes. They know how to set up plans before a fight. And follow through with it.

Good players also help out other to be good players by giving tips and advice. Maybe show them the ropes.

Good players should be based on what addons you use. Or how fast you can down something. Anyone can kill anything in a game.

Good players know its a game and just have fun. Bad players needlessly brag over the dumbest stuff. And feel a player is only as gpood as the addons he got.