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  1. #221
    Player
    TeraTyrantShadic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    ラノシア - リムサ・ロミンサ
    Posts
    150
    Character
    J'naiah Terran
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 80
    Implementing Limited Job from the very start was a bad idea to begin with even if you dish out positive ideas or come up with interesting suggestions it will either make a copy of an already existing system more complicated and all of the 'Limited Job Exclusive Content' is only related to that one specific job. Just stop trying to defend the horrible system, all Limited Jobs do is cap a job at a specific level and prevent it from accessing certain duties. That is all, it doesn't provide Masked carnival or all of Blue Mage activities because in order for those to exist you need Blue Mage, not limited job.

    So imagine this, Blue Mage is implemented normally like any other job and we have masked carnival, blue mage log and the achievements for morbol mount and title. We already have the raid and trials for the title and morbol achievement, we already have the dungeon and it can fit any class or party composition. As for Masked carnival it'll be the exclusive thing and yet it still doesn't rely on Limited Job as it only relies on having the Blue Mage Job. All of these content, you don't need limited job. If it was implemented normally you can still do it. Limited Job is just there to test the waters and to piss people off.

    So I'll say it again Limited Job system was and still is a mistake, as it doesn't provide anything to the table other than restricting a job to be playable in all content and to make it more enjoyable. Remember Summoner's titan tanking Ramuh? What did they do? They nerfed it, no fun allowed. Its the same feeling as that, we give you Blue Mage but you won't have fun with it in the long run. We'll just use it as a hype machine to generate more sub count.
    (3)

  2. #222
    Player
    omeganova45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    5
    Character
    Nymphia Aloera
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 80
    Blue Mage is fun at first! Though... I really can't find anyone to play with me sadly ;3; Even leveling Blue Mage feels like a chore. I only have 8 spells and I am Level 15 and really I can't participate it in a normal dungeon made me drop the job entirely, it really isn't worth my time. I would have invested more time into it, but there anyone rarely playing it on my server.
    (2)

  3. #223
    Player
    Mariel_Crystallie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    136
    Character
    Mariel Crystallie
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by omeganova45 View Post
    Blue Mage is fun at first! Though... I really can't find anyone to play with me sadly ;3; Even leveling Blue Mage feels like a chore. I only have 8 spells and I am Level 15 and really I can't participate it in a normal dungeon made me drop the job entirely, it really isn't worth my time. I would have invested more time into it, but there anyone rarely playing it on my server.
    yeah the current problem about "Limited Job" is you need play with friend to enjoy the whole content of this job. also for the Achievement you need a proper team that understand End Game content which not casual friendly either. I hope they could remove the Limited Job system overall and just make it as a normal job like usual.
    (1)
    Mariel Crystallie & Amariel Crystallie & Mariel Celestine

  4. #224
    Player
    JiSH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    48
    Character
    Camouix Nidhogandr
    World
    Kujata
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 80
    I agree, before it was released i was so ready to main a new caster Job, but it turns out to be a limited "solo job", for me it's just a waste of resource which could be taken to making an actual proper job instead.

    Getting all the skills are just not fun, where you have to look for other people to help you so you can get the skill guaranteed, and it's a huge time sink for just a "side" content.

    I'd say they should rework the whole system, even making it both a normal and limited job also works.
    (0)

  5. #225
    Player
    SennaLauren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    6
    Character
    Saint Reign
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by JiSH View Post
    Getting all the skills are just not fun, where you have to look for other people to help you so you can get the skill guaranteed, and it's a huge time sink for just a "side" content.
    As someone who will sometimes level solely through fate cause i wanna take it slow and solo stuff, i was pretty excited when they announced that Blu will be for solo content. But it's so far from it, outside of carnival. Skills requires a full pt, and the new reward is way more hc than most people bother to do.
    (3)

  6. #226
    Player
    JiSH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    48
    Character
    Camouix Nidhogandr
    World
    Kujata
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 80
    yeah, from how i view it, it kinda have an identity crisis, because it was designed as a side content/casual content but the current final achievement is stupidly hardcore, it's okay if it was designed for raiders in the first place, but this is supposed to be designed for the casuals/solo players, even some raiders can't clear synced Brute Justice.

    if that's what they're going for in the end, might as well just make it a normal job.
    (1)

  7. #227
    Player
    SennaLauren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    6
    Character
    Saint Reign
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 80
    yes, i don't mind if it was a time sink as a solo content as advertised, but carnival is so easy to do, that it can be done in a single evening, and what's worse is that certain carnival level needs skills from dungeons. IMO they should have made it that blu get the skill at a 100% rate while solo, while buffing it that we can solo it as a blu. At this point, not only are we not able to queue blu in duty finder, we aren't strong enough to do solo with it even if we wanna do it with the lower % chance of getting the skills.
    (0)

  8. #228
    Player
    Volsungr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    68
    Character
    Halua Volsungavesta
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Rogue Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by SennaLauren View Post
    yes, i don't mind if it was a time sink as a solo content as advertised, but carnival is so easy to do, that it can be done in a single evening, and what's worse is that certain carnival level needs skills from dungeons. IMO they should have made it that blu get the skill at a 100% rate while solo, while buffing it that we can solo it as a blu. At this point, not only are we not able to queue blu in duty finder, we aren't strong enough to do solo with it even if we wanna do it with the lower % chance of getting the skills.
    queueing in df should be the bare minimum if they wanna make it multiplayer, and should tune the job more if they wanna make it solo. they make the achievement so grand yet the process to get there is a hassle. hope they turn it into real job next exp
    (0)
    The war, it wageth on.
    The storm, it rageth on.

  9. #229
    Player
    Shougun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    9,431
    Character
    Wubrant Drakesbane
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by SennaLauren View Post
    As someone who will sometimes level solely through fate cause i wanna take it slow and solo stuff, i was pretty excited when they announced that Blu will be for solo content. But it's so far from it, outside of carnival. Skills requires a full pt, and the new reward is way more hc than most people bother to do.
    Yeah blue mage is not really a solo job. I find the claim misleading although I believe it could be accidental / mistake over malice / preempted, like perhaps there were too many people in the kitchen cooking or some internal miscommunication.

    In order to make valuable progression to your job you MUST party either through charity or through PF. MUST. Blue Mage is too weak to solo progress through that content (and taking 45 minutes to do something doesn't count lol "but I can cast white wind 50000 times while using my ogcd to kill a primal" person)

    Sure you can use the half cooked version with only solo-learn-able skills, but who in full clarity would call a job that is half complete in a state of solo a solo job? That seems like a serious mistake.

    Blue Mage is a PF job, with some solo attributes. Our current normal jobs are more solo oriented than Blue Mage. With our current jobs you can make a complete progression of the job solo as well as enjoy a far wider range of content, also solo. You /cannot/ complete your blue mage without a party.

    I don't believe SE had any malice or trying to pull the wool over the eyes of players or anything- but when you can say our current jobs are more solo focused than the job supposedly made with solo concepts in mind... it seems like very off and uncomfortable, like we're being lied to (again I don't believe SE would do that, or at least I hope not, but the feeling I get from the situation is very much not a good one, like if your best friend said something that hurt your feelings but you knew they weren't try to to lol).

    This unfortunately travels to many other points of why I think Blue Mage really needs a hard, very hard, look at it's design and then for someone to reintroduce the job (that doesn't mean it HAS to be dalamud, although I'd probably be happy if it was lol), but that it feels like they need to start their communication slate over again because there is way too much mud and blood in the water.

    I'll give a few examples:

    First the obvious one, they said it's a designed for solo play yet in order to gain core parts of your job that make it go from 3 button spam to something vaguely similar to actual job gameplay you MUST party. There is also party exclusive content. Made worse with the mount that is party exclusive content. Carnival offering only a common token that can be obtained everywhere and a few spells for blue mage, the amount of spells obtained by force solo vs force party is dramatically in the favor of party. This screams "not designed for solo, but has some solo aspects", especially given the context of our own current jobs and the party exclusive rewards / mechanical progression of your job. I would also say carnival is not designed with the most interesting parts of blue mage in mind either, to further nail in that "this job wasn't made with solo focus/primary care" and that carnival would probably have been more fun if it did involve the more interesting parts of the job (which is both bad and further shows how the job wasn't primarily designed solo, core pieces offed into PF exclusivity, and that the job could use someone sitting down and organizing it out and hammering out it's design philosophy- even if it's not into my favor).

    Second, they said they don't want to make blue mage normal because they want to give players the true to power original spells. Then they promptly nerfed those true to power original spells. Then they gave players one of the worst versions to exist in the FF series of Angel's Breath, and they avoided a few spells true to form effects like Fire Angon. This is made more painful by the fact that most of these spells they give players are just potency color shifts and or a largely unimpressive status debuff. Meanwhile they keep the design that the job /has/ to party in order to become interesting, and they even added a spell that /forced/ a holy trinity just like our normal jobs so they could balance party finder content. This job is clearly designed for party finder, and I think that's a bad thing (for this job, not that there is a job out there that was made for PF).

    Third, they said they didn't want to make blue mage not be allowed in groups because of missing spells so they made it like this. Then they require you to have certain spells to do content (like the glower), and they set up the job with a party focus meaning that they put the job into a situation that they claimed they didn't want to do.

    All three reasons they said they went a different direction they then partially or entirely contradict themselves. Blue's current design story is very frustrating and seems confused and forced. I don't think they had as much fun as they could have, and I don't think it was for the best of the job- if their original goal was to be "heart of blue mage" wild child dreams. There is clearly a finger on the scale of design because the ultimate goal was to put it into PF.

    There are some more minor ones as we go along but those three are core reasons why they made blue as they way they did and yet every single core issue they gave us seems like they failed to follow through, or just didn't at all. Ultimately it reads as though "we made blue the way we did because because and everything else we say is just us trying to cover why we did it because obviously our reasons are not core design philosophies to the job". I know it sounds a bit harsh and I want to reiterate I don't think SE was trying to pull wool or be evil or anything like that, and it could have been someone's pet project that they worked on in their very seldom free time, there are lots of reasons why, but I want to bold underline and generally be upset (lol) that what they said they wanted to achieve, what they said they couldn't achieve, it all seems horribly off- it all feels like I'm being lied to (again.. I don't say SE is attempting malice, I am saying how I feel about what SE has said and then done, it feels bad).

    With the finale of it all that I think while it is fine if they wanted to design some sort of special PARTY finder focused content (it's not my style, I'd not want to play it, but this game is made for more than just one person and so thank goodness they've diversity right?), of course they made it with some side solo stuff, the problem to me though is using blue mage for 'that' design focus would be one of the worst candidates for that focus. Not only due to the issue of progression put onto the whim of the party finder, made worse that this content doesn't have much value so it's a subsection of a subsection of a whim, with progression that promotes not going back and having to have many pieces. Then made worse that if they focus on their party side they will have to balance skills to party content even though they claim they didn't want to- just like how angel whisper is the worst angel whisper FF has seen, you can clearly see balance decisions made for the job for PF content. Just like people claim it can't be DF if you want true blue then it also can't be designed around PF, if you wanted true and wild blue it MUST be designed for solo, actually honest to goodness design for solo. But I don't even think that would make the best blue, as I believe the most fun blue would be one that makes every single spell a mental treat like gaining new cards in a hyper aggressive active trading card game (where each card is valuable, skip all the trash cards). Blue Mage I actually believe could make good use out of being both normal and limited, but that limited side should be solo focused, actually solo designed, OR be designed in such a way that they can obtain those skills through DF. I also think there could be a lot of good fun out of many USEFUL skills and even more if they combined in interesting ways like Diablo 3 legendary affixes, and even further if they added other layers like getting certain skills unlocked equip-able passives and such (making the hunt for each new spell an entirely valuable experience, in the now and in the future the spell would be of potential value- unlike having a bunch of solo skills that are different colors of the same damage).

    A limited PF focused content that would do well I think is magitek mech content, as it would leave progression in a very smooth way- unlike having to go back and collect a lot of important skills in order to be wanted in a party (which is something they said they didn't want blue mage to do and then did it to blue mage anyways). See the issue with PF blue mage is you leave the progression of your job to the whims of the server, and unless you're going to do some sort of convoluted putting important monsters into the carnival as a sort of soft-progression then many blue mages are going to be hurting if they didn't join in during the hot part of the patch, and even if they join they might be in the wrong wave of excitement (if people who play are those who don't want to go back, and going back is charity, there is no reason for some one to go back besides to be a nice person). Meanwhile if you did mech content you could very well design an entirely new approach to combat (don't need the trinity), while providing the team a very powerful flexible way to produce progression content (as the pieces could be horizontally designed over being strictly ilvl, or horizontal-lite at least- meaning they could produce content that is easy to get into the group but difficult to master and provides an entirely fresh take, see even with blue who does have some unique gimmicks they've already put it right back into the classic trinity, that fresh flavor already becoming very similar as before but way more restricted).
    (0)
    Last edited by Shougun; 10-09-2020 at 06:04 AM.

  10. #230
    Player
    wereotter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    2,105
    Character
    Antony Gabbiani
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by JiSH View Post
    I agree, before it was released i was so ready to main a new caster Job, but it turns out to be a limited "solo job", for me it's just a waste of resource which could be taken to making an actual proper job instead.

    Getting all the skills are just not fun, where you have to look for other people to help you so you can get the skill guaranteed, and it's a huge time sink for just a "side" content.

    I'd say they should rework the whole system, even making it both a normal and limited job also works.
    Honestly, it was kind of the case that when it comes to this game, blue mage put the developers into a lose-lose-lose situation.

    Think of it:
    Blue mage was a widely requested job, so not adding it to the game was a loss since they weren't adding a job that's been a staple of the game and wildly popular.

    If they added it like a normal job, they would have had to severely limit its spells and potentially make it so that they're either not learned from monsters (which goes against the identity of the job) or would have to be learned from monsters in instanced battles during job quests (and with how many people don't do their job quests this opens up other issues) Not to mention that the extremely limited number of spells would have people complaining that they can't use specific spells they see enemies in the field use. Effectively we'd see this option end up with "not being a real blue mage"

    So they chose the limited job system. Also a failing from the perspective of many players, but it gave us the ability to have most our spells learned from monsters, expand the number of spells, and not worry about how all those extra options might compare in balance to other casting jobs. Effectively giving us the most true to history implementation of the job while having to restrict it to not being able to play with others... which also upset people.

    So really there's just no winning around this job, and I can't see a way they can make any adjustment that will make everyone happy.
    (0)

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