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  1. #1
    Player
    Kalise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1,784
    Character
    Kalise Relanah
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 80
    I think one of the issues with buffing the potency on their skills, is that they get currently 5 levels of Main and Mend totalling 50% bonus damage/healing (Though, compared to other classes Maim and Mend II giving 30% it's less potent than it may seem) as well as a 100% uptime debuff of 50% more damage dealt to a target (Since 30s duration, 30s reuse time and reset of reuse if the target dies before it expires)

    So, 130 potency from their filler skills goes up to 195 potency due to M&M, which is then amped up to 293 by Off-Guard.

    With a buff of 30 potency, it goes to 160 base up to 240 with M&M to then a final output of 360 with Off-Guard. Which would be comparable to Fire I under full Astral Fire, except you know, BLU has basically infinite mana because all their skills (Sans White Wind) are pretty cheap.

    Essentially, BLU is kind of screwed because of their massive scaling but it means that they suck before they get level 40+ for high rank M&M as well as treading a very fine line where minor shifts can take them from Healer level DPS to BLM DPS.

    Really, they need to tone down either Maim and Mend and/or Off-Guard and buff their base potency. Probably OG more so than M&M, since I get the idea behind their many ranks of M&M (The fact that they don't get traits to upgrade the level of their skills, like how say, WHM goes from Stone I to Stone II to Stone III to Stone IV and thus goes from 140 Pot > 200 Pot > 210 Pot > 250 Pot in addition to Maim and Mend I into Maim and Mend II for 10% > 30% damage/healing increase)

    Especially since this will only get worse as they get increased level cap and thus get more ranks of M&M (For example, next expac when they get level 60, they'll likely get a sixth rank of M&M making their 130 pot abilities do 208 base pot and get amped up to 312. While if a 30 pot boost was applied, they'd end up doing 384 pot, which is more than BLM's Fire I with full stacks)
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    Phoenicia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Idling in Idle-shire
    Posts
    748
    Character
    Naomi Enami
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalise View Post
    I think one of the issues with buffing the potency on their skills, is that they get currently 5 levels of Main and Mend totalling 50% bonus damage/healing (Though, compared to other classes Maim and Mend II giving 30% it's less potent than it may seem) as well as a 100% uptime debuff of 50% more damage dealt to a target (Since 30s duration, 30s reuse time and reset of reuse if the target dies before it expires)

    So, 130 potency from their filler skills goes up to 195 potency due to M&M, which is then amped up to 293 by Off-Guard.

    With a buff of 30 potency, it goes to 160 base up to 240 with M&M to then a final output of 360 with Off-Guard. Which would be comparable to Fire I under full Astral Fire, except you know, BLU has basically infinite mana because all their skills (Sans White Wind) are pretty cheap.

    Essentially, BLU is kind of screwed because of their massive scaling but it means that they suck before they get level 40+ for high rank M&M as well as treading a very fine line where minor shifts can take them from Healer level DPS to BLM DPS.

    Really, they need to tone down either Maim and Mend and/or Off-Guard and buff their base potency. Probably OG more so than M&M, since I get the idea behind their many ranks of M&M (The fact that they don't get traits to upgrade the level of their skills, like how say, WHM goes from Stone I to Stone II to Stone III to Stone IV and thus goes from 140 Pot > 200 Pot > 210 Pot > 250 Pot in addition to Maim and Mend I into Maim and Mend II for 10% > 30% damage/healing increase)

    Especially since this will only get worse as they get increased level cap and thus get more ranks of M&M (For example, next expac when they get level 60, they'll likely get a sixth rank of M&M making their 130 pot abilities do 208 base pot and get amped up to 312. While if a 30 pot boost was applied, they'd end up doing 384 pot, which is more than BLM's Fire I with full stacks)
    So much math, but you forgot the most important component.... No..... Weapon..... Damage...... It is the absolute most important stat in the game and BLU doesn't have it.

    So even if you had 380 potency like the BLM's Fire spells, you have 1 weapon damage. Get on your BLM, and equip a level 1 weapon and cast fire, then equip a level 5 weapon and cast it again and see how big a difference that makes.
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    Palladiamors's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    309
    Character
    Ishimar Furial
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 93
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenicia View Post
    So much math, but you forgot the most important component.... No..... Weapon..... Damage...... It is the absolute most important stat in the game and BLU doesn't have it.

    So even if you had 380 potency like the BLM's Fire spells, you have 1 weapon damage. Get on your BLM, and equip a level 1 weapon and cast fire, then equip a level 5 weapon and cast it again and see how big a difference that makes.
    I'm not trying to be rude here, but its almost like you aren't aware that they adjusted the stats garnered from armor to make up for the lack of a main weapon, on top of having a 50% main and mend. So no, a level 5 black mage weapon would not be a good comparison. Not even close. But without actually knowing the coefficients we can't make a good comparison.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    Phoenicia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Idling in Idle-shire
    Posts
    748
    Character
    Naomi Enami
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Palladiamors View Post
    I'm not trying to be rude here, but its almost like you aren't aware that they adjusted the stats garnered from armor to make up for the lack of a main weapon, on top of having a 50% main and mend. So no, a level 5 black mage weapon would not be a good comparison. Not even close. But without actually knowing the coefficients we can't make a good comparison.
    No I am pretty aware of the "higher INT scaling" and the 3 Maim and Mend traits instead of 2. The scaling is still terrible. Your 120 potency spells are still hitting like wet noodles at 50. At level 50 1 weapon damage was worth 7~11 of the main stat. The comparison was using a level 1 weapon where you only have 1 WD vs a level 5 weapon where you have 2 to see how visible the difference is. BLU does have a pretty bad scaling issue compared to the other jobs.
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player
    Palladiamors's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    309
    Character
    Ishimar Furial
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 93
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenicia View Post
    No I am pretty aware of the "higher INT scaling" and the 3 Maim and Mend traits instead of 2. The scaling is still terrible. Your 120 potency spells are still hitting like wet noodles at 50. At level 50 1 weapon damage was worth 7~11 of the main stat. The comparison was using a level 1 weapon where you only have 1 WD vs a level 5 weapon where you have 2 to see how visible the difference is. BLU does have a pretty bad scaling issue compared to the other jobs.
    You don't KNOW the scaling, you can't say its terrible. You're also leaving off Off-Guard which is another 50% increase AND you're forgetting that Blue Mage spells cast around 20% faster than black mage spells. You're also not factoring in the power of Primal Spells...though for some reason Bristle doesn't work on those so admittedly they aren't hitting for as much as they SHOULD be. But that's another problem in and of itself, BLU really needs those spells to even be close to competitive but farming anything but eruption requires a group.

    Blue mage single target damage is low, though. Not as low as you are making it sound, but still low. BLU either requires targets to be weak to status ailments that every boss is immune to, or requires a heavy time and party investment in order to be...sub-par on anything other than trash mobs.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    Kabooa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    4,391
    Character
    Jace Ossura
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Palladiamors View Post
    You don't KNOW the scaling, you can't say its terrible. You're also leaving off Off-Guard which is another 50% increase AND you're forgetting that Blue Mage spells cast around 20% faster than black mage spells.
    Being a faster cast doesn't mean you get more damage. It's 2.5 GCD regardless and potency across any job is balanced around this.

    Also, the hyper scaling replaces weapon damage. Anyone who has played ARR at i130 will likely tell you the same. Blue Mage ends up in roughly the same spot as other DPS once kitted out in i130.

    It's actually one of the more frustrating parts. They went through and meticulously ensured the damage formula comes out to about the same as other Jobs, use spells about the same as other jobs, but it's still treated as its own special things that can't play with the other kids in the sandbox.
    (3)

  7. #7
    Player
    KylePearlsand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    351
    Character
    Khona'ra Nhaja
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Bristle is still worth having actually. It increases the dot damage of Song of Torment which is an overall gain in damage. It's best used like this. Bristle:Off Guard -> Song of Torment. Song of Torment goes from 300 potency total to 450 potency total. Really the only time using Bristle is worth it unless it is a phase where you can't target anything. In which case you'd probably use it on Song of Torment anyways.
    (0)
    Hello, if you're reading this, then you should know this isn't part of the post.