(Spoilers) Ghimlyt difficulty was a step down from the Burn...and that needs to stop

[Ilan]

I've been in parties that have had multiple wipes in Ghimlyt Dark, and one abandoned...

One point to make is that towards the end of an expansion cycle, top gear progression far outpaces minimum gear progression.
This dungeon is what, Minimum ilvl 360 or something? Which means you have to balance it around that for players who have only just reached level 70, while up to date players will be ilvl 380+.

How on earth is it even possible to wipe that hard, that someone votes abandon in there? Sure you can wipe if no one pays attention and everyone dies to BS, but for a vote abandon it had to be a group of disaster and not just newer players.

[zuzu-bq]

What the game needs is a proper learning curve, and Dungeons should fulfill that role, bridge the gap between casual timesink based content and harder trials.
(...)
This game has no learning curve, and thus, we have people that is level 70 in most classes and can't even play one correctly... Let alone the skip potions.

Pretty much what I been saying here. Dungeons should be challenging enough to teach players how to play the game and insentivise them to get better but not too hard so players that want to enjoy the story can get throught it. It's a hard balance and I think because of it the difficulty of dungeons are so variable. And honestly, I get that the game is story focused but at the end unlocking more story should be a reward for playing the game, and not solely just a part of the ride attraction. I think the system of expert roulette is what in the end forces them to push the difficulty down, having to accomodate it to any kind of player, together with 2.0 dungeon reception trauma from the dev team.

Also funny enough, the hardest dungeons are the leveling ones (both in Heavensward and Stormblood) since they don't let you massively overgear them.

[FFgame]

This is why I was disappointed when they didn't introduce some kinda mythic+ system for dungeons in upcoming SB.

[zuzu-bq]

Sadly, I think they treat the Deep Dungeon as their M+ equivalent.

[AnimaAnimus]

How on earth is it even possible to wipe that hard, that someone votes abandon in there? Sure you can wipe if no one pays attention and everyone dies to BS, but for a vote abandon it had to be a group of disaster and not just newer players.

I think they are over exaggerating it. Even with a full pt of fresh 70s the most wipes of seen in there are 1, on the second boss when we didn't understand the charge move. Between 3 chars I have run that dungeon many many times now and there is barely even a single death, much less a wipe, much less a vote abandon. The dungeon is a faceroll.

[Alexandre_Noireau]

I think they are over exaggerating it. Even with a full pt of fresh 70s the most wipes of seen in there are 1, on the second boss when we didn't understand the charge move. Between 3 chars I have run that dungeon many many times now and there is barely even a single death, much less a wipe, much less a vote abandon. The dungeon is a faceroll.

Yesterday i wiped twice to the Aery second boss with a full +350 BLM and NIN, both had several classes level 70. They couldnt kill the mustard bomb that eats the gas clouds. We wiped to niddy, cause i was having an impossible time healing the loldrg because he was being struck by both large dragons and even remaining lizards that they couldnt thin down.

I'm not blaming them btw.

Im blaming the game for allowing them to reach those levels without teaching them basic mechanics and gameplay. Because all they need to progress in the story to some most points, is to press a few buttons in random order. 15 to 50 Dungeons should demand players to properly use their core skills, 51 through 60 should demand more tight DPS checks that used HW skills and so on, SB, dungeons should already be incorporating more punishing raid patterns so level 60+ players need to know the ins and outs of their classes if they wanna perform. A level 70 dungeons should require tanks to do basic agro management and stance dancing, DPS to properly burst and healers should be at least, needing to be aware of their MP managment and learn when to burst heal, when to passive heal, punish regens before pulls, etc, etc, etc.

If it's done properly, and should be done properly, there shouldn't be any issue as ARR dungeons would go teaching, HW dungeons would force more synergic gameplay and finally SB dungeons should train players for trials and raids. The guildhest system, should be what dungeons are, at large. At least from Sastacha to Brayflox, every dungeon should teach basic concept and mechanics of each role, each class even. The game needs to make sure players don't reach high level content if they are not prepared for it, and high level content should be that, high level. Lv 50 dungeons shouldnt even be similar to lv 60s, 70s and so on. Leveling dungeons of each expansion should focus on teaching the new additions to every class and give a small preview of new mechanics to come in the later stages.

The game already has more friendly (as to say, less strict) content, Palace of the Dead, Eureka, FATEs, Hunts... Dungeons shouldn't be one of them.

Also, enforce min ilvl to all dungeons, seriously. The sync in this game is broken and just destroys any fun of synced content. If a certain number of players is well above the sync, min ilvl should be a must.

[Ilan]

I think they are over exaggerating it. Even with a full pt of fresh 70s the most wipes of seen in there are 1, on the second boss when we didn't understand the charge move. Between 3 chars I have run that dungeon many many times now and there is barely even a single death, much less a wipe, much less a vote abandon. The dungeon is a faceroll.

Honetly i don't even believe that this was an exaggeration, i'm afraid thats exactly what happened. I think we all can remember the worst players that we ever had and if we mix them up together in a dungeon, this scenario doesn't seem so far off.

For normal, better and good players this dungeon is, of course, just faceroll even with the min ilvl.

[ApolloGenX]

But nothing about this game says "hardcore"... why are people complaining about it this many years into the game? You might as well be complaining about the formula. It's not a hardcore game... at all..so yes. There are people playing that are not expert level. If you are expert level you probably play a game that actually requires expert level play or caters to that.

[splinter1545]

But nothing about this game says "hardcore"... why are people complaining about it this many years into the game? You might as well be complaining about the formula. It's not a hardcore game... at all..so yes. There are people playing that are not expert level. If you are expert level you probably play a game that actually requires expert level play or caters to that.

Just because a game isn't catering to the hardcore, doesn't mean they shouldn't make hardcore content. Regardless, the discussion is to make dungeon content more difficult than it is now, not necessarily turn it into 4-man extreme content for the hardcore players.

[Deceptus]

Just because a game isn't catering to the hardcore, doesn't mean they shouldn't make hardcore content.

They do. It just doesn't happen to be dungeons. Savages and Ultimates are the hardcore content.