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  1. #1
    Player

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
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    Ul'dah
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    2,057

    (Spoilers) Ghimlyt difficulty was a step down from the Burn...and that needs to stop

    Now that a couple weeks have passed since the patch released, I have to say, the Ghimlyt Dark was an amazing dungeon, aesthetic-wise. The environment, the setting, the feeling of actually being in a war after the cutscenes preceding it made the dungeon feel like one of the best ones we’ve had in post-Stormblood patches. The actual enemies we dealt with though…eh, not so much.

    Not even accounting for gear, most of the fights were…actually rather easy to pick up on. Trash mobs are trash mobs as always, and even though the bosses did hit hard, The Burn had much more of a bite to it, in my opinion. Of all the level 70 dungeons we’ve gotten so far, the Burn still is the only one that feels appropriately difficult for level 70, and I personally think that is a problem. The devs’ insistence on closing the skill gap doesn’t…really help anything if the vast majority of the bosses we deal stop being difficult after the first couple of runs. I’d hoped that the Mist Dragon would be the start of the end of these faceroll dungeons…then we get Ghimlyt.

    I like that dungeon. It fits thematically and it is one of my absolute favorite SB dungeons…except it’s a faceroll dungeon. Next expansion, we’re going to be hitting level 80 – it seems a bit ridiculous to fathom that by the time we start getting those dungeons, they will be the same as 90% of the dungeons we’ve already been through – faceroll.

    Rather than trying to close the skill gap, I feel like the devs need to stop holding players’ hands in Shadowbringers and actually step up the difficulty. By the time players reach level 70, even jump potioned up to lvl 60, they should have a basic expectation on how to play their jobs. Not even asking for Savage, Ex…or hell, even 24-man difficulty here. Just hoping that the devs stop being so afraid to actually pull the trigger and make these dungeons feel like they’re worth something.

    And if the devs are so worried about players complaining about difficulty…well, people already complained about Shinryu, Tsukyomi, Byakko (why?!), and even the Mist Dragon, and they stuck to their guns on that one. I hope that in Shadowbringers, they don’t produce more dungeons that barely tickle players.
    (47)

  2. #2
    Player Seraphor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    4,620
    Character
    Seraphor Vhinasch
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    I've been in parties that have had multiple wipes in Ghimlyt Dark, and one abandoned...

    One point to make is that towards the end of an expansion cycle, top gear progression far outpaces minimum gear progression.
    This dungeon is what, Minimum ilvl 360 or something? Which means you have to balance it around that for players who have only just reached level 70, while up to date players will be ilvl 380+.
    (22)
    Last edited by Seraphor; 01-17-2019 at 06:21 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Ilan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    3,057
    Character
    Kurumii Tokisakii
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphor View Post
    I've been in parties that have had multiple wipes in Ghimlyt Dark, and one abandoned...

    One point to make is that towards the end of an expansion cycle, top gear progression far outpaces minimum gear progression.
    This dungeon is what, Minimum ilvl 360 or something? Which means you have to balance it around that for players who have only just reached level 70, while up to date players will be ilvl 380+.
    How on earth is it even possible to wipe that hard, that someone votes abandon in there? Sure you can wipe if no one pays attention and everyone dies to BS, but for a vote abandon it had to be a group of disaster and not just newer players.
    (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by Canadane View Post
    Good talk, all. Glad we had it.
    暗闇の力#7805

  4. #4
    Player
    AnimaAnimus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,344
    Character
    Cynric Zerr
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan View Post
    How on earth is it even possible to wipe that hard, that someone votes abandon in there? Sure you can wipe if no one pays attention and everyone dies to BS, but for a vote abandon it had to be a group of disaster and not just newer players.
    I think they are over exaggerating it. Even with a full pt of fresh 70s the most wipes of seen in there are 1, on the second boss when we didn't understand the charge move. Between 3 chars I have run that dungeon many many times now and there is barely even a single death, much less a wipe, much less a vote abandon. The dungeon is a faceroll.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    Alexandre_Noireau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Ul'dah.
    Posts
    518
    Character
    Fredya Falenas
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 81
    Quote Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus View Post
    I think they are over exaggerating it. Even with a full pt of fresh 70s the most wipes of seen in there are 1, on the second boss when we didn't understand the charge move. Between 3 chars I have run that dungeon many many times now and there is barely even a single death, much less a wipe, much less a vote abandon. The dungeon is a faceroll.
    Yesterday i wiped twice to the Aery second boss with a full +350 BLM and NIN, both had several classes level 70. They couldnt kill the mustard bomb that eats the gas clouds. We wiped to niddy, cause i was having an impossible time healing the loldrg because he was being struck by both large dragons and even remaining lizards that they couldnt thin down.

    I'm not blaming them btw.

    Im blaming the game for allowing them to reach those levels without teaching them basic mechanics and gameplay. Because all they need to progress in the story to some most points, is to press a few buttons in random order. 15 to 50 Dungeons should demand players to properly use their core skills, 51 through 60 should demand more tight DPS checks that used HW skills and so on, SB, dungeons should already be incorporating more punishing raid patterns so level 60+ players need to know the ins and outs of their classes if they wanna perform. A level 70 dungeons should require tanks to do basic agro management and stance dancing, DPS to properly burst and healers should be at least, needing to be aware of their MP managment and learn when to burst heal, when to passive heal, punish regens before pulls, etc, etc, etc.

    If it's done properly, and should be done properly, there shouldn't be any issue as ARR dungeons would go teaching, HW dungeons would force more synergic gameplay and finally SB dungeons should train players for trials and raids. The guildhest system, should be what dungeons are, at large. At least from Sastacha to Brayflox, every dungeon should teach basic concept and mechanics of each role, each class even. The game needs to make sure players don't reach high level content if they are not prepared for it, and high level content should be that, high level. Lv 50 dungeons shouldnt even be similar to lv 60s, 70s and so on. Leveling dungeons of each expansion should focus on teaching the new additions to every class and give a small preview of new mechanics to come in the later stages.

    The game already has more friendly (as to say, less strict) content, Palace of the Dead, Eureka, FATEs, Hunts... Dungeons shouldn't be one of them.

    Also, enforce min ilvl to all dungeons, seriously. The sync in this game is broken and just destroys any fun of synced content. If a certain number of players is well above the sync, min ilvl should be a must.
    (0)
    "The will of my friends has etched into my heart, and now ill transform this infinite darkness into eternal light
    Unmatched in heaven and earth, one body and one soul that challenge the gods!"

  6. #6
    Player
    Ilan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    3,057
    Character
    Kurumii Tokisakii
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus View Post
    I think they are over exaggerating it. Even with a full pt of fresh 70s the most wipes of seen in there are 1, on the second boss when we didn't understand the charge move. Between 3 chars I have run that dungeon many many times now and there is barely even a single death, much less a wipe, much less a vote abandon. The dungeon is a faceroll.
    Honetly i don't even believe that this was an exaggeration, i'm afraid thats exactly what happened. I think we all can remember the worst players that we ever had and if we mix them up together in a dungeon, this scenario doesn't seem so far off.

    For normal, better and good players this dungeon is, of course, just faceroll even with the min ilvl.
    (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by Canadane View Post
    Good talk, all. Glad we had it.
    暗闇の力#7805

  7. #7
    Player
    Katie_Kitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    952
    Character
    Princess Whiskers
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphor View Post
    I've been in parties that have had multiple wipes in Ghimlyt Dark, and one abandoned...

    One point to make is that towards the end of an expansion cycle, top gear progression far outpaces minimum gear progression.
    This dungeon is what, Minimum ilvl 360 or something? Which means you have to balance it around that for players who have only just reached level 70, while up to date players will be ilvl 380+.
    I actually left a party in the first week because my party members couldn't stay alive in the first boss. Apparently its spinning around and slamming the ground was too much for them..

    Quote Originally Posted by splinter1545 View Post
    My first group even 3 man'd the 2nd boss after the healer died midway through, and we didn't even struggle.
    The 2nd boss is incredibly easy. Multiple times I've had my healer and both DPS die on me while tanking as PLD and each time I've solo'd it with no trouble. If you have a reliable self-heal and are capable of seeing the big red circle on the wall when he's about to storm through at you, then you almost can't lose to that boss.
    (2)
    Last edited by Katie_Kitty; 01-22-2019 at 12:03 PM.

  8. #8
    Player
    reivaxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,193
    Character
    Jellicle Jayde
    World
    Maduin
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    I don't think any level cap dng is hard, just annoying.
    I mean, what do I get from it? Trash mobs are not rewarding to kill as I'm max level and the EXP goes to waste. Most dngs lock you in an area until you'll killed all the things. The only real reason to run them is to get tomes and gear drops.

    So the only thing I get from them is some sense of entertainment by the setting which this givesin better than most.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    BillyKaplan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    2,913
    Character
    Lho Polaali
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 23
    Hm. I do see your point. I'll also add while we're on the matter that compared to some recent trials, the new one felt easier as well. A bit boring even. The biggest issue there is that it seems Surecast doesn't work against all knockbacks lmao. But that's not really a problem.

    As for the dungeons, I think this boils down again to the lack of proper midcore content alongside the gear power creep. Mist Dragon was, by far, one of the less forgiving boss fights we've had in a good while, at least in dungeons. You had to be aware of the entire arena to avoid the fog plumes on the floor, especially when there were two of them. You hit something you shouldn't have? Your party now has to break you out of the ice. And here, have a dps check on top of it all. (and it's still mostly faceroll these days)
    But ultimately I look at what I described and while I don't personally think it's that bad, it is a step up from regular dungeons - which are the most softcore content you can find in the game, especially story ones. If anything, I should hope that the next time they add a "Hard Mode" dungeon it's actually hard instead of letting us explore a different or worse - recolored part of a dungeon we've already been to. Those tend to be optional dungeons as well, so the devs can afford to be a bit harder with it. I mean, the filthiest casual should still be allowed to play this game, and we're talking about a story dungeon. Anything that isn't part of the MSQ though? Yeah they need to step up their game.
    (7)

  10. #10
    Player

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    2,057
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphor View Post
    I've been in parties that have had multiple wipes in Ghimlyt Dark, and one abandoned...

    One point to make is that towards the end of an expansion cycle, top gear progression far outpaces minimum gear progression.
    This dungeon is what, Minimum ilvl 360 or something? Which means you have to balance it around that for players who have only just reached level 70, while up to date players will be ilvl 380+.
    My contention with this is that at this point, players will not have JUST reached 70. At a minimum, they still have Ala Mhigo, Skalla, Tsukyomi, and the Burn to go through before touching Ghimlyt. Each of them with ilvl walls themselves.
    (16)

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