Primal Slaying

[Bright-Flower]

Keep in mind that non echo blessed people 'can' kill primals, it's just usually a costly battle. The Company of Heroes and grand companies have killed primals before. The WOL having the echo just makes it safer and less costly to do so. Also Raubahn and Lyse help kill Lakshmi in 4.1.

So having some non echo blessed people help isn't unheard of either.

[Kalise]

Keep in mind that non echo blessed people 'can' kill primals, it's just usually a costly battle. The Company of Heroes and grand companies have killed primals before. The WOL having the echo just makes it safer and less costly to do so. Also Raubahn and Lyse help kill Lakshmi in 4.1.

So having some non echo blessed people help isn't unheard of either.

True.

Though, it's incredibly dangerous, due to the risk of being taken by the primals influence (Unless you have some people with the echo to play Missile Defence for you... Like with Arenvald when the meeting for Gyr Abania ended up with a summoning of Lakshmi, until Missile Defence turned into bullet hell and we needed Fordola, who I can accept having the Echo because she was given it artificially)

[leocordis]

Thanks everyone for the answers. It was just weird to me because one spot mentioned about Thordan how history will never know how we beat him by ourselves yet then lyse says we need help with Lakshmi

[Delily]

Thanks everyone for the answers. It was just weird to me because one spot mentioned about Thordan how history will never know how we beat him by ourselves yet then lyse says we need help with Lakshmi

It's stated that strength of a primal is related to the strength of the summoner's belief as well as the available aether. Thordan was like Shiva, in that he turned himself into a primal using mainly the aether stored in Niddhogg's eyes. I don't know if he was tempered (as it's never stated he had the Echo), but I'd say he didn't really have the level of faith in his idea of Thordan as tempered people do. The second time we fight Lakshmi, it's not that we really need her, it's that we're busy trying to protect everyone else.

[Bright-Flower]

It's stated that strength of a primal is related to the strength of the summoner's belief as well as the available aether. Thordan was like Shiva, in that he turned himself into a primal using mainly the aether stored in Niddhogg's eyes. I don't know if he was tempered (as it's never stated he had the Echo), but I'd say he didn't really have the level of faith in his idea of Thordan as tempered people do. The second time we fight Lakshmi, it's not that we really need her, it's that we're busy trying to protect everyone else.

We're busy doing that in the first phase but then AFTER everyone gets rescued she and Raubahn stay behind to fight because 'it takes more than three to beat a primal.' And for what it's worth, you need her attack at the end to finish off Lakshmi before Fordola's barrier breaks. Or at least I did maybe I just had crap dps on the three characters I did the fight on.

[Lium]

Good evening all,
Sorry if this has been asked or discussed before. I'm reading the first lore book and it talks about the WoL killing the primal by himself, even though in game we have a party. So is it cannon that we slay primals by ourselves?

Some of the posters in this thread are incorrect. Canonically, the WoL acts alone in every fight. The quest text about "gather some friends" just lets you know that you are going to have to go into duty finder to run the dungeon or trial.

[GrumbleBeard]

Some of the posters in this thread are incorrect. Canonically, the WoL acts alone in every fight. The quest text about "gather some friends" just lets you know that you are going to have to go into duty finder to run the dungeon or trial.

Doesn't the journal during the Susano-o fight mention how convenient it was that your adventurer buddies just happen to be nearby in a boat to help you or something silly? I don't think they're all fought alone.

Here it is:
“Your efforts to wreak havoc on the Isle of Zekki and draw the Red Kojin away from their imperial masters have exceeded all expectations. Unfortunately, for reasons beyond your knowing, two of the sacred treasures stored in the isle's vault "reacted" to the presence of the Yasakani-no-Magatama, summoning forth from the aether the great kami Susano—a primal by another name. How fortunate that you had the wisdom and foresight to invite several of your fellow adventurers on this journey to the Far East, and how kind they were to agree to help you torment the Red Kojin, for no single warrior, no matter how blessed or powerful, could ever hope to slay a primal on their own, despite what some wandering minstrels would have you believe.”

[Lium]

Doesn't the journal during the Susano-o fight mention how convenient it was that your adventurer buddies just happen to be nearby in a boat to help you or something silly? I don't think they're all fought alone.

Here it is:
“Your efforts to wreak havoc on the Isle of Zekki and draw the Red Kojin away from their imperial masters have exceeded all expectations. Unfortunately, for reasons beyond your knowing, two of the sacred treasures stored in the isle's vault "reacted" to the presence of the Yasakani-no-Magatama, summoning forth from the aether the great kami Susano—a primal by another name. How fortunate that you had the wisdom and foresight to invite several of your fellow adventurers on this journey to the Far East, and how kind they were to agree to help you torment the Red Kojin, for no single warrior, no matter how blessed or powerful, could ever hope to slay a primal on their own, despite what some wandering minstrels would have you believe.”

That was tongue-in-cheek. SE was actually making fun of the fact that you were supposed to only be there with Alisae and Lyse (I believe) yet somehow there were several of your adventurers in the region just waiting for you to call on them. You are THE Warrior of Light. The only person on the star (that we know of) who has the Blessing of Hydaelyn, which is something only Midgardsormr seems to understand, and not even the Ascians can fully grasp.

Canonically, you are the only one capable of performing these miraculous feats.

[Kalise]

Some of the posters in this thread are incorrect. Canonically, the WoL acts alone in every fight. The quest text about "gather some friends" just lets you know that you are going to have to go into duty finder to run the dungeon or trial.

Well, it's not just quest text. The actual characters in the game tell you to go grab some adventurer friends. Like, I believe for Bismark, Cid asks you if you and your friends are ready to go. As I recall, you also get told to go grab some friends to take out Lakshmi too.

Let me dig up some quotes:

Bismarck -

Cid:
Then all that remains is to confirm the readiness of the poor buggers who'll actually be doing the fighting. Forename, let Wedge know when your party is assembled.

Wedge:
A-Are we really going to go skyfishing for a primal!?

Cid:
We'll depart for the island once you've assembled your party. Let Wedge know when you're ready.

[Iscah]

Some of the posters in this thread are incorrect. Canonically, the WoL acts alone in every fight. The quest text about "gather some friends" just lets you know that you are going to have to go into duty finder to run the dungeon or trial.

Canonically, if it was spoken within the story, by other characters in the story, that you would be going into the location with other people, then that's my understanding of exactly what makes it canon that you are not alone in that dungeon.

Sometimes it's specifically justified - sending a small group into the narrow passages of Snowcloak, or leading a team of fighters in the raid on Castrum Meridianum (who are with you for both the Castrum and Praetorium dungeons, even though they only appear in the cutscenes for the latter). You canonically recruited a whole crowd of adventurers to defend the Steps of Faith and surrounding areas, and see "your party" (actually fixed NPCs that look like they'd be player characters) sitting around exhausted in the cutscene after the battle.

And sometimes they make no mention of other characters, or make it clear that you actually are (supposedly) there alone. Those are the instances where we can assume our party are purely a game mechanic.

The tongue-in-cheek-ness of Susano's trial description is unusual, as far as I can remember. Normally they don't highlight the absurdity of assembling a party out of nowhere; they would just act like you're going in "canonically alone".

Unless it's been said somewhere outside of the game that they "don't mean it" when characters say this sort of thing?

Thanks everyone for the answers. It was just weird to me because one spot mentioned about Thordan how history will never know how we beat him by ourselves yet then lyse says we need help with Lakshmi

Power levels in an ever-increasing game like this are always weird. Technically Lakshmi does outlevel Thordan and we've gotten stronger since that fight. But who knows if "game levels" are really supposed to come into this? I think they just do whatever works storywise at the time, and maybe don't think too hard about the exact levels. Or keep track of how they framed it last time.


Although I did like the theory I read one time that the reason Zenos thrashes us the first few times we fight, is that he's already Lv70 and we need to catch up before we can fight him on an equal level, as it were...



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(Also, headcanonically, my WoL has an actual permanent party with her anyway. Which works an awful lot better for story and power-level consistency, not that it helps much for interpreting the canon take on things...)