My Catharsis in FFXIV

[HyoMinPark]

There are many wonderful things about the Japanese culture - IRL and online.
'Inclusive' is not something that would be top of my list of adjectives where non-Japanese (or at the very least having a very workable knowledge of the language) are concerned.

Perhaps "inclusive" is the incorrect word, but they are far more group-oriented compared to western cultures that focus more on individualism. That's what I was getting at; I just chose the wrong word.

OP has already shown they aren't the greatest of team players (at least, that was the impression I got from their opening statement). They won't make it very far if they start venturing into higher end content on the JP data centers more frequently (they've already done a few fights, as a handy dandy website told me). JP may be externally more patient than some NA/EU players, in that they may not directly call someone out on poor performance, but they can be just as "elitist" as the western players OP is "running from".

[Ilyrian]

Perhaps "inclusive" is the incorrect word, but they are far more group-oriented compared to western cultures that focus more on individualism. That's what I was getting at; I just chose the wrong word.

OP has already shown they aren't the greatest of team players (at least, that was the impression I got from their opening statement). They won't make it very far if they start venturing into higher end content on the JP data centers more frequently (they've already done a few fights, as a handy dandy website told me). JP may be externally more patient than some NA/EU players, in that they may not directly call someone out on poor performance, but they can be just as "elitist" as the western players OP is "running from".

Absolutely agree

[RenAshdoll]

When u join in high-end contents like the savage raids, there will always be a minimum expectation for performance that is required of the content. While in the JP data centers they can be less vocal (well E players in there are much more direct lol) about under-performing players, they can-and-will voice out or even take action if the "exceptional" case becomes "truly exceptional" and might even affect the next non-j player that joins the party (got removed from a o11s party months back, can't remember whether it was ATC or farm, because the party leader had trouble with an E player the previous try).

That said, friendly players that help others are everywhere; had a grp of E players that took turns to switch to a tank to take aggro when BLU-ing for Final String, and a grp of J players that carried my fat butt 2 more extra rounds in Haukke Manor despite me being prepared to make another party so that I dun waste their time.

[Vanitas]

This is why I could never be a mentor. I don't have the patience to put up with people who have such a idgaf mentality and literally snap at you like you insulted their mother for suggesting a better way to play no matter how nice you tell them or how awful they play. At the end of the day WE and up having to pull their useless weight through the entirety of the game because it's not like there are any WALLS that would bar such poor play and force them to reconsider or anything. Even if this is a bait post these people do exist and likely make up a significant chunk of the community and that's absurd and disappointing.

[Nora_of_Mira]

I just wanted to play the game and have fun, not aim to be top in damage meters and be criticized when I don't push to squeeze out every bit of damage I can do. I just wanted to do stuff, but there was no way that I could in an environment full of people that demanded too much from me.

I have to ask, what content do you spend the most time doing? Because if you want to play with people that don't expect anything from others, stick to dungeons and 24 mans and trials roulettes.

what exactly is "demanding too much"? have you equated what exactly people are asking you to do?

I'm speaking from a relatable perspective because I remember being a lvl60 DRG during Heavensward and not actually knowing how my buffs worked and it took a while to actually learn wtf I was doing. That was a long time ago and I've learned a lot since then, but even recently when I tried joining Savage parties, I REFUSED to use potions because I thought it was a waste (and I'm poor). So I knew exactly what people were asking me to do, and I refused to care until they convinced me of the benefits (its only relevant in savage content).

this is just an example of my own bc I dont really see much context in your post. Theres nothing wrong with not being optimal in casual content (dungeons, trials, 24mans) because its designed to allow such. But it's a different story if you're trying to clear Extreme primals and savage content where teamwork and DPS actually matter.


edit: I just watched the catharsis video as I didnt have time earlier. When did Dan stop doing Extra Credits?!

[Zorixas]

Just lol if you think the Japanese players are judging you any less than your contemporaries.

Some do for sure, but more often than not they just want to have fun and don't mind if anyone makes a few mistakes. They're quite understanding when someone is inexperienced.

[Zorixas]

1) People rarely critize anyone, let alone a tank, for not playing optimal in any content beside Savage/Ultimate (...and maaaybe the latest EX-Primal). You can play the better part of the game without having to squeeze out every last bit of damage.

2) For Savage-content: Obviously, people will expect you to do your best, push yourself and improve - all of those are things you should actually want for yourself in the first place. I dont expect people to be perfect, but I expect them to strife for perfection if they want to participate in true endgame-content. And I expect them to be competent on their job and its basic in all the content.

3) The best solution to escape the enviroment of people expecting "to much" would be to find a group of friends to enjoy the game with - people who share similar goals and mindsets. Who'd rather have fun raiding - and not so much with clearing the top tier within the first week. But thats only my humble opinion.

4) You'll soon find that while the japanese might not call you out to your face, you'll run into a different kind of trouble, specially with your mindset. From all that I've heard about japanese servers and their culture, with your attitude of "I dont wanna give my best and/or improve" you wont last long. Because they expect that as much as the western servers do. They might seem more patient, but thats most likely because the majority of them has the mindset of "If I'm not good enough to do this content, I wont hold my team back by joining in the first place."

If the japanese servers are more to your taste - grats! Its great that you've found your place within Eorzea, but I cant help to point out that regardless of the server you're playing on you should absolutly try your best, squeeze out that extra bit of damage, try to improve yourself, your gameplay, your understanding of your job and the content you're taking it to.
Its a matter of respect - on both sides.
Personally, I dont mind new people or people who are still learning - but I mind people who refuse to do that. I'm not saying that thats the case with you, but your OP sounds very much like you've given up to an extend with improving yourself and trying to meet the "demands" of the people you met through DF. And quite frankly: That baffles me a bit... because usually those demands arent high. Usually people dont care what the rest of their group does in a normal dungeon. As long as some basic standards are met. Just wanting to do stuff doesnt work when you're playing with other people - you also need to do that stuff right and to an extend you need to know how to do that right before hand. If you end up with "toxic groups" or groups demanding "to much", you might need to take a look at your job and your skills again and spend some time learning those before you jump back into group-content - regardless of your server, its the right thing to do: Going into content prepared. And if you dont feel you are yet - or even more so: if you're clearly not - then you should improve before you join a group, specially a group of strangers.

Let me give an example of what I was referring to.
During Heavensward on the Gilgamesh server, I decided to finally try out raiding and take on Alexander, so I joined a static (I was a monk at the time). When we got to Cruise Chaser, we had more trouble than the other 2 bosses. I was doing all that I can to remember the mechanics and what to do to counter them, but I couldn't remember the exact rotations and timings for what mechanics were coming and when, so I made the decision of not using Shoulder Tackle for when I needed to get away from the boss, I can charge back in immediately when it's safe, my damage was great without it anyway, I made sure to not die as much as possible and follow the strategies as best as I could. The result was as we progressed; I died the least amount of times and countered the mechanics the most when doing good damage. When we finally beat the boss, they decided to have a meeting to discuss on how to deal with that boss before moving on to Alexander. Their strategy was to squeeze out as much damage as possible (I wanted to tell them that dying less would lead to more damage, but I decided to keep that to myself). When they got to me, they wanted me to use Shoulder Tackle on cooldown no matter what, I told them no because I wanted to stay on the boss and I haven't gotten down its rotation just yet for me to pull off that kind of min-maxing, 100 potency every 30 seconds would not be missed. So they kicked me from the static. Not because I performed poorly, but because I didn't want to completely maximize my damage with such desperate clawing to scrape up a minuscule damage increase. That was not going to change the result of the entire fight. That's what's I'm talking about when I spoke of criticism because I didn't squeeze out every bit of damage.

When it was that I talked with Japanese raiders about my scenarios like the one I mentioned, they all pretty much had the same response: They don't care. As long as you're doing all that you can to win and not die, they're fine with whatever play-style that you want. Seriously, I've encountered so many ninjas that use Doton on single targets for all levels of content, they do not care. Almost everyone just keeps to themselves, as long as you're polite, say the usual greetings and parting words when in a group (よろしくお願いします 'Yoroshikuonegaishimasu' at the start and お疲れさまでした "Otsukaresamadeshita" at the end) and not be a douche, you'll be fine. They only really care about communication in difficult content, some would rather not have to deal with non-Japanese speakers, but I've also encountered those that we really understanding and tried their best to speak what little English they knew. I've been a mediator many times to help with that lack of communication, but it's been difficult for me as well because I am only able to speak and read so little of it. There are many terms that are different than what English players use (e.g., what we call "savage", they call it 零式 "Reishiki", I can't read it at all, and the translators call it "Zero-Type" or "Zero-Formula" when I'm sure is incorrect, and there's so many shortened terms that they use which I still don't understand them, it's still rough). They're not really spiteful as they are disappointed when you're doing poorly, and you have to be doing really bad for them to say anything, more often than not it's just responses like, "Eh, you're new, you'll get the hang of it in time." with the occasional "Let's have fun!" and "Do your best!" sprinkled in now and then. There are some Japanese min-maxers, but they don't push their advice onto anyone, however, they are ready and more than happy to give advice when you ask for it. It's a different culture with different upbringings and customs, so they think and act different in many situations. They're not as spiteful as others would have you believe.

...also... can I ask why you put your info on a specific magic-crystal-ball-website that may or may not tell people how well you are performing on your Lodestone-page for everyone to see if you're feeling judged by people? Is this just some trolling or clickbait for that video?

Huh? Magic-crystal-ball-website? What are you talking about? The only link on my forum profile page is to my YouTube channel (which I should change because I'm not uploading anything. I'll set it to my twitter for now), and my lodestone profile has that code that FFLogs wanted me to put on it, which was for those Alexander raid runs. It no longer matters, the Japanese players don't really use it. I think that they use something else to check performance, but's it's used more for a personal performance analysis rather than analyzing others.

[HyoMinPark]

When we finally beat the boss, they decided to have a meeting to discuss on how to deal with that boss before moving on to Alexander. Their strategy was to squeeze out as much damage as possible (I wanted to tell them that dying less would lead to more damage, but I decided to keep that to myself). When they got to me, they wanted me to use Shoulder Tackle on cooldown no matter what, I told them no because I wanted to stay on the boss and I haven't gotten down its rotation just yet for me to pull off that kind of min-maxing, 100 potency every 30 seconds would not be missed. So they kicked me from the static. Not because I performed poorly, but because I didn't want to completely maximize my damage with such desperate clawing to scrape up a minuscule damage increase. That was not going to change the result of the entire fight. That's what's I'm talking about when I spoke of criticism because I didn't squeeze out every bit of damage.

They kicked you because they wanted to optimize, and you weren’t willing to do that. Any static wanting to optimize is within their rights to kick a member who refuses to optimize.

When the goals of members of a static are different, there will always be contention. They wanted to squeeze out as much damage as possible; you wanted to play it safe. That didn’t line up with what they wanted. 100 potency adds up over time, by the way—it’s one thing to hold the ability for a few seconds for a well-timed dashback, but if you continuously hold it over the course of a fight to the point that you are losing multiple casts of it, that’s you throwing away damage for literally no reason. For example, 5 missed casts is 500 potency—already stronger than Tornado Kick, which was MNK’s most potent ability back in HW.

When it was that I talked with Japanese raiders about my scenarios like the one I talked about, they all pretty much had the same response: They don't care. As long as you're doing all that you can to win and not die, they're fine with whatever play-style that you want.

Not if you joined a hardcore group on JP. If they want to optimize and you do not, they will not take you. They will kick you. A group that doesn’t want to optimize won’t care, but there are a multitude of groups on JP that do want to optimize and min-max. Don’t join groups that want things different from what you want.

Huh? Magic-crystal-ball-website? What are you talking about? The only site on my forum profile page is to my YouTube channel (which I should change because I'm not uploading anything. I'll set it to my twitter for now), and my lodestone profile has that code that FFLogs wanted me to put on it, which was for those Alexander raid runs. It no longer matters, the Japanese players don't really use it. I think that they use something else to check performance, but's it's used more for a personal performance analysis rather than analyzing others.

If you think JP players don’t use a certain tool and a certain website, you are mistaken.

[Zorixas]

I have to ask, what content do you spend the most time doing? Because if you want to play with people that don't expect anything from others, stick to dungeons and 24 mans and trials roulettes.

I do whatever I feel like doing and have the time for. Pugging is far more popular on Japanese servers, so it's just setting up Party Finders for anything, however, PvP is super difficult to start simply because no one's doing them. They just do it to get the mounts and then move on when they get it, so if you're not with the crowd, tough nuggets! Wait for the next one. Right now I'm aiming for the extreme mounts, but that Omega mount is looking very enticing.

what exactly is "demanding too much"? have you equated what exactly people are asking you to do?

I'm speaking from a relatable perspective because I remember being a lvl60 DRG during Heavensward and not actually knowing how my buffs worked and it took a while to actually learn wtf I was doing. That was a long time ago and I've learned a lot since then, but even recently when I tried joining Savage parties, I REFUSED to use potions because I thought it was a waste (and I'm poor). So I knew exactly what people were asking me to do, and I refused to care until they convinced me of the benefits (its only relevant in savage content).

this is just an example of my own bc I dont really see much context in your post. Theres nothing wrong with not being optimal in casual content (dungeons, trials, 24mans) because its designed to allow such. But it's a different story if you're trying to clear Extreme primals and savage content where teamwork and DPS actually matter.

I will never forget the time I was kicked out of my first static because I refused to use Shoulder Tackle on cooldown and save it for quick returns. My damage was fine, made the fewest mistakes that lead to wipes, wasn't rude or anything of the sort (barely spoke at all), but got kicked for that crap. I neither need nor want those kinds of unnecessary demands and expectations ruining my fun time, no one does. We spend money every month to play a game, why make such unnecessary demands for such a pitiful amount of damage when dying less results in so much more damage?

Also funnily enough, I'm usually poor as well, but food and potions are much cheaper on Japanese servers that I can afford them, however the Japanese players aren't going to scorn you for not using them as many of them don't use them either, so they're seen as a bonus rather than a requirement.

edit: I just watched the catharsis video as I didnt have time earlier. When did Dan stop doing Extra Credits?!

A few months ago. Be sure to follow him on Twitter if you want to keep up with what and how he's doing.

[Zorixas]

They kicked you because they wanted to optimize, and you weren’t willing to do that. Any static wanting to optimize is within their rights to kick a member who refuses to optimize.

When the goals of members of a static are different, there will always be contention. They wanted to squeeze out as much damage as possible; you wanted to play it safe. That didn’t line up with what they wanted. 100 potency adds up over time, by the way—it’s one thing to hold the ability for a few seconds for a well-timed dashback, but if you continuously hold it over the course of a fight to the point that you are losing multiple casts of it, that’s you throwing away damage for literally no reason. For example, 5 missed casts is 500 potency—already stronger than Tornado Kick, which was MNK’s most potent ability back in HW.

Yup, they wanted maximized damage, I just wanted to win. Which is funny, because when we were learning the fights, they focused on damage over mechanics, which lead to them dying more and, ironically, less damage done overall.

Not if you joined a hardcore group on JP. If they want to optimize and you do not, they will not take you. They will kick you. A group that doesn’t want to optimize won’t care, but there are a multitude of groups on JP that do want to optimize and min-max. Don’t join groups that want things different from what you want.

It's not like I want to join hardcore groups. Luckily there are far, far more mid-core players that see the same way I do, "Fight to win, but have fun and don't stress over it." It's far more difficult to find and join hardcore Japanese players than it is to just jump in a practice, clear or farm run, or even just use the Duty Finder (Not for savage though, Party Finders for those).

If you think JP players don’t use a certain tool and a certain website, you are mistaken.

You quoted me saying that they don't use FFlogs so much but something else instead and why they use it, then respond to that quote as if I said that they don't use any logs of some type at all... What are you even doing?