Dev Team, you screwed up.

[Palladiamors]

The sad thing is, they are right on the edge of having it right, or at least okay. Have a second bar down in the Blue Magic window that allows you to set up skills for duties. Disallow the usage of certain skills that could be considered broken and do not allow them in normal duties. Done. Now you have a bar you can activate to be broken with, that you can go out and enjoy with your premade friends and you have a bar you can do duties with so you can play the class otherwise if you are a solo player.

I still disagree with the sheer low percentage of learning the primal skills ((Over two hundred and fifty Ifrit kills so far and nada)) but that's another issue.

[Reneo]

Exactly. Just because Blue Mage has the ability to tank or heal, doesn't necessarily paint them as either of the roles. Blue Mage in this iteration is a dps.

[Ilyrian]

However, I do not believe Summoner is a tank nor Red Mage is a healer. Just like I don't believe Blue Mage is either of those things either. It lacks too many tools to efficiently fill in the role compared to any other choice. You wouldn't BLU because it's the right choice for the content, you'd do it because you can. Just like I can tank random stuff with Titan-egi, but choose not to.

And this is my point. The BLU you'll get will be like the Red Mage we got. And people will complain about that too.

Another mage with an offheal. Good for progression then you'll bring in the proper DPS for speed kills. Sounds awfully familiar

EDIT: I must preface all this with an explanation. I'm actually not really that bothered either way - If it makes more people happy to have BLU a certain way then I hope you get what you want. I only joined the discussion because I normally roll my eyes so far back into my head with every new addition to this game, but this time I actually think they've done something pretty good. That's why I'm just pointing out some people will never been happy with anything. And people won't be happy with the BLU they get if they change it. As this entire thread continues to prove.

That said, in true SE fashion, the drop rates on the Primals and the need to rely on people in the DF to carry/not screw you - has tainted (again) something that should have been fun.
Give me solo grinds any day.

[Flana]

And this is my point. The BLU you'll get will be like the Red Mage we got. And people will complain about that too.

Another mage with an offheal. Good for progression then you'll bring in the proper DPS for speed kills. Sounds awfully familiar

EDIT: I must preface all this with an explanation. I'm actually not really that bothered either way - If it makes more people happy to have BLU a certain way then I hope you get what you want. I only joined the discussion because I normally roll my eyes so far back into my head with every new addition to this game, but this time I actually think they've done something pretty good. That's why I'm just pointing out some people will never been happy with anything. And people won't be happy with the BLU they get if they change it. As this entire thread continues to prove.

That said, in true SE fashion, the drop rates on the Primals and the need to rely on people in the DF to carry/not screw you - has tainted (again) something that should have been fun.
Give me solo grinds any day.

You're missing the point I'm making. BLU won't be like that in the future if they change it. Blue Mage is already like that from the second they added it in. BLU is not a tank or a healer. It isn't an off-tank and barely functions as an off-healer. It lacks the tools right now to be anything more than a gimmicked replacement, exactly the same as Summoner and Red Mage for their respective roles. Are you trying to say that the version of BLU that is live, right this second, is a boring clone of RDM?

[Ilyrian]

You're missing the point I'm making. BLU won't be like that in the future if they change it. Blue Mage is already like that from the second they added it in. BLU is not a tank or a healer. It isn't an off-tank and barely functions as an off-healer. It lacks the tools right now to be anything more than a gimmicked replacement, exactly the same as Summoner and Red Mage for their respective roles. Are you trying to say that the version of BLU that is live, right this second, is a boring clone of RDM?

No, I'm saying the one we'll get - if put into the main class roster, will be - has to be.

I like the gimmicky nature of it as it stands.
And the gear - the shirt/tie combo is everything. Not too keen on the hat though. Would like just a mask option.

[Flana]

Then this is where we fundamentally disagree, because I do not believe it "has to be" anything if they added it into the roster as a real job. It could have been a tank and worked radically different to everything we've been discussing while paying homage to the original Blue Mage from older FF games. Dualgunner already gave several ways they could have implemented Mighty Guard to make it better caster skill than a Shield Oath ripoff. They could have done dozens of things to differentiate White Wind from Vercure.

The best comp for years has always been primarily physical damage. They could have BLU be the gimmick caster-support to make caster comps competetive with physical ones. They already got Eerie Light which is a bonkers 30% magic vuln. There are so many ways they could have taken BLU as a real job to implement it in to the game, which is the crux of my issue.

I don't hate BLU. I hate limited jobs. BLU is a symptom, not the cause. They cheapened out on adding something that could have been unique and sequestered it into side content without even making it stand apart from the real jobs we have right now. If you took a synced party into coil, what does BLU actually bring to the table besides White Wind? What does BLU in this form actually add to the game outside of just memeing on 5 year old content, and is any of it actually overpowered enough to justify being limited? That is my problem with all of this. BLU is the solution to a problem SE created out of thin air, when it could have been a solution to actual problems in the game.

[Ilyrian]

Then this is where we fundamentally disagree, because I do not believe it "has to be" anything if they added it into the roster as a real job. It could have been a tank and worked radically different to everything we've been discussing while paying homage to the original Blue Mage from older FF games. Dualgunner already gave several ways they could have implemented Mighty Guard to make it better caster skill than a Shield Oath ripoff. They could have done dozens of things to differentiate White Wind from Vercure.

The best comp for years has always been primarily physical damage. They could have BLU be the gimmick caster-support to make caster comps competetive with physical ones. They already got Eerie Light which is a bonkers 30% magic vuln. There are so many ways they could have taken BLU as a real job to implement it in to the game, which is the crux of my issue.

I don't hate BLU. I hate limited jobs. BLU is a symptom, not the cause. They cheapened out on adding something that could have been unique and sequestered it into side content without even making it stand apart from the real jobs we have right now. If you took a synced party into coil, what does BLU actually bring to the table besides White Wind? What does BLU in this form actually add to the game outside of just memeing on 5 year old content, and is any of it actually overpowered enough to justify being limited? That is my problem with all of this. BLU is the solution to a problem SE created out of thin air, when it could have been a solution to actual problems in the game.

I can see you side of it definitely - the spell acquisition was fun until it involved parties and unsynced grinding.
The worst part for me is that it has exposed/brought out the worst side of the player base.

I don't think it's about it being OP - its about it being restricted into yet another mage role. But I'm happy to be proved wrong that SE could make a new mage different enough within the framework of the game as it stands currently.

[Kalise]

Honestly...

BLU could be a Support/DPS.

Taking aspects from the likes of BRD (With its team crit buffs, team damage buffs, team HP up/Phys Vuln down/Mag vuln Down, target healing up, target cleanse), DRG (Piercing Vuln Down which is a massive DPS boost to BRD and MCH) and RDM (Vercure, Verraise (Which is actually better than all Healer's Raises because of the Dual Cast mechanic) and Embolden)

Meaning, that it would be quite viable to make them primarily a magical DPS (To which the playstyle I've already mentioned. Their current kit looks to be a unique Cone/PBAoE Combo skill related one. Just give us things like Frost, Mustard Gas, Stone Breath and alter existing skills like Aqua Breath, The Ram's Voice and High Voltage so we can apply non-status related debuffs to reliably make combos) but with the option to provide considerable team utility.

Mighty Guard could, instead of being tank stance on steroids, could be party wide phys vuln down + mag vuln down as a cooldown.

White Wind, could become an instant cast with a 120 second CD which heals for the BLU's current health and cures all cleanseable debuffs.

They could get Angel Whisper for an AoE resurrect skill (Would be soooooooo useful for doing exploratory missions like Eureka where everyone keeps dying all the time)

They could get Amplification as a teamwide Mag/Attack/Healing power boost cooldown (So, while other classes like DRG/BRD/SCH can amp everyone's crit, BLU would amp everyone's power)

They could get Heaven's Cataract for a CD skill that lowers targets resistances (A la Foe's Requiem)

They could get Acrid Stream for keeping up a 10% mag vuln debuff (Akin to DRG's Piercing debuff, but for casters) and then make Peculiar Light into a much longer CD skill for just temporary damage amp for casters.

Thus, while they're still primarily a DPS class, they will still be competitive in end game content because people might want to utilize their support skills. Heck, they might be able to make caster DPS more viable in the same way that DRG makes BRD/MCH more viable.

All the while, using Blue Magic spells that have existed in previous games (With minor changes to adapt to XIV's combat systems) without fundamentally changing those skills essences in a way that makes them barely recognizable *Cough*Mighty Guard*Cough*

[TheHeavenAbyss]

No, I'm saying the one we'll get - if put into the main class roster, will be - has to be.

I like the gimmicky nature of it as it stands.
And the gear - the shirt/tie combo is everything. Not too keen on the hat though. Would like just a mask option.

I see, but I don't agree. Just because a BLU could be a magic DPS with a healing spell doesn't mean it would be RDM clone. White Wind doesn't even have to be like Vercure, it could be a heal-all spell that worked differently, just as an example. If BLU would have to be a caster that has to fill two bars at more or less the same time, while managing Dualcasting spells, and then enters a burst phase in melee combat, maybe I would agree.

I mean, should we just give up on any possible new mage DPS job just because we can't think of how SE would do it?

[Ilyrian]

I see, but I don't agree. Just because a BLU could be a magic DPS with a healing spell doesn't mean it would be RDM clone. White Wind doesn't even have to be like Vercure, it could be a heal-all spell that worked differently, just as an example. If BLU would have to be a caster that has to fill two bars at more or less the same time and then enters a burst phase in melee combat, maybe I would agree.

Again it's nothing to do with the use of the spell - if a RDM is Vercuring and not DPSing then something has gone wrong in the grp.
You don't bring RDM to heal people. You being them for quick reses in progression and then ignore them in speed kills.

This game (currently) doesn't have support classes. So a BLU can't be one. If it was it would become either mandatory in a grp or useless and ignored.