Blue Mage is a masterpiece of game design.

[Aster_E]

Yea they are grindy, but a brand new "solo" class is released who has most of their kit locked behind level 50 content which requires a party to run and a really low chance to get. Glad all the way at the end of SB we are getting carried in lvl 50 ex primals for a slight chance at learning a skill that is hopefully more interesting than the rest.

Also we have a multitude of skills that are simply 120 potency with a different status tagged on. 49 "unique" skills is a bit misleading. then we have the joke skills that are probably the only fun part about the class.

Yes, joke skills and more, such as all the memes tied to Self Destruct; and I am waiting for someone to go with my idea and get some BLUs together dressed as Creepers. Let the hilarity ensue. >

Also, I did enjoy having an excuse to have my leading alt character's bird out and leveling it a couple ranks as I got Lyra to 31 on BLU. Then competing with people for good grind spots, even at the wee hours of the early morning, because the job is so new and shiny (for FFXIV). I got my main character's BLU to 50 in about four hours because of people moving in on my spots I tried picking out for myself, or because of one friend being all like "Hey, I found a better way" only for it to not work. Neither character learned any additional skills thus far. That's something to be saved for after I get back to the game and have nothing better to do, as opposed to making sure I'm all prepared for ShB to come out. People, especially on Greg server, are as active as they are salty in the high level areas; I'll tell you what. When I get back to the game and have the time to spare for BLU I'll likely have better pickings for those monsters to learn their skills.

[Anatha]

Totally underwhelming and completely demoralizing, grinding out spells only for them to be totally useless. The leveling process was hell itself. Nothing but 1k needles over and over because the class literally had no other viable means of damage.

Once you get to 50 it's still a disappointment. Mediocre damage abounds. It's depressing.

Is this the class fantasy? Just useless skill after useless skill? I'm not familiar with blue mage history but it really doesn't sound enjoyable.

[Darkstride]

It's a nice change if pace, although level 1 - 50 is basically 1000 Needles/Acorn Bomb spam. Nothing really competes with the 1000 Needles & Mighty Guard combo. Given the array of abilities, it would have been nice to see a better of variety of playstyle. That's not to say you *can't* play without 1000 Needles, but it's very clearly the most efficient way to level, and remains that way throughout nearly the whole process.

[Aster_E]

It's a nice change if pace, although level 1 - 50 is basically 1000 Needles/Acorn Bomb spam.

Or using a higher level job + server ticks (possibly not recommended in the event of gaining the devs' ire); or having a Level 70 Sch put Protect on you before breaking party, putting Adlo on you, and letting you grab enemies in a high-level, dense area, occasionally putting adlo back on to grab aggro from the monsters, and then said Sch would use Miasma II to kill everything. When you're over level 43 and doing a spot with nine mobs around level 49, that's 140k exp a pull.

Leveling is stupid easy for this job. Gaining abilities is rng-based progression, which I loathe but know some folks are fine with. The abilities themselves weren't even attempted as far as balancing goes. Yet, the job remains kind of fun for unintended reasons, unless Yoshi wanted people to blow up and die in the middle of various cities or residential areas. lol

[Fyce]

In a well designed piece of content that people should want to spend time doing, they should be. That absolutely isn't the case here, and the gulf between the "fun" way and the "effective" way is so large it points to a massive shortcoming in the design. Also, if you had the same luck we had but did 7 minute level 50 Ramuh clears, that's a good 6 hours of grind on 4 year old content. You'd probably want to quit after a good hour of that, and that doesn't include potential wipes, afking people. I think the fun would wear off after a solid 10 kills with no learn proc.

Sorry, but the vast majority of the time, the most effective method is very rarely the one where you'll get the most fun. This is not exclusive to FFXIV. Not even to video games. These situations are the exception, not the rule... and for one very good reason: this is extremely hard to produce.

You are basically asking them to find the perfect balance when it comes to fun and reward satisfaction, while also managing to keep it within the context of MMORPGs (thousands of live players to satisfy, high number of hours to sink in the feature, technical constraints).

You also have to realize that your anecdotal experience and your own statement regarding the maximum number of kills you consider "fun" (which you stated is 10, no more) is entirely subjective. If you would take a look at the history of MMORPGs, there are a lot of people who are much, much more patient than you and appreciate grinding way more as well. So, when what you consider to be bad design might be good in the eyes of someone else, you have to ask yourself if you are not simply giving your very own opinion instead of speaking objectively about game design.

What was fun about blue mage was the 30 minutes of learning overworld spells and a bit of leveling; the Carnivale seems to have promise. All of these 50 locked duty locked skills that require my friends to carry me because the solo job can't solo it is a failure where I even feel bad for asking them to give up their valuable time for me, especially those friends who don't care for BLU - I can't return the favor for them.

I had a blast trying to either solo some dungeons, or do them in a Blue Duet with a friend. I don't "require" them to carry me. It's not a requirement. It's a choice you made. Which echoes what I just said above about subjectivity.
Also, a lot of people are doing PF groups to get skills together. Would it be synced BLU only, synced mix party, or unsynced. Your argument regarding you having to ask for some "valuable time" from your friends "who don't care for BLU" is pretty moot when you already have an accessible pool of players that a willing to do the same thing as you.
In short, absolutly nothing forced you to do what you did but your own subjective appreciation, tolerance and choices regarding that grind. Nothing forced you to only have fun during the 10 first kills. It's your own tastes. Nothing forced you to ask friends who don't care about BLU to carry you when there are alternatives. It was your own choice.

Finally, it's not a solo job exclusively. It never was, it never will be. Group play was presented as a way for Blue Mage to progress since the reveal at the fanfest.

[Alexandre_Noireau]

Totally underwhelming and completely demoralizing, grinding out spells only for them to be totally useless. The leveling process was hell itself. Nothing but 1k needles over and over because the class literally had no other viable means of damage.

Once you get to 50 it's still a disappointment. Mediocre damage abounds. It's depressing.

Is this the class fantasy? Just useless skill after useless skill? I'm not familiar with blue mage history but it really doesn't sound enjoyable.

Actually it is. Save for Quina actually (actually actually, Quina was just "abusable"), most of the "blue mages" in the main series have been, subpar characters in terms of performance and the class itself is an oddball, is like a druid, but not a druid. Like a mage but not a mage. Monster Magic is something too alien for a game with such a strict trinity role system.

Blue Mage needs a more diverse, open MMORPG, with more vague, deeper mechanics and calculations to fulfill a mid ground class between DPS/Debuffer/Buffer class. Not possible in our game.

[Lord_Umbra]

BLU is interesting but man is it a pathetic DPS especially since half our spells don't work on anything but trash & on trash easier just spam 1000 needles which is essentially our main/ almost only real damage move.
I'm curios why chose almost entirely status effect skills over you know useful DPS skills, fact got like 5+ stuns 5+ debuffs all which have around same potency & couple suicide skills instead is little insane, cool animations but worthless to me in almost every fight.

[Shurrikhan]

Sorry, but the vast majority of the time, the most effective method is very rarely the one where you'll get the most fun. This is not exclusive to FFXIV. Not even to video games. These situations are the exception, not the rule... and for one very good reason: this is extremely hard to produce.

You are basically asking them to find the perfect balance when it comes to fun and reward satisfaction, while also managing to keep it within the context of MMORPGs (thousands of live players to satisfy, high number of hours to sink in the feature, technical constraints).

I mean, you're basically blaming the player for asking for high quality, or to be allowed by the systems of the game to have fun. Shouldn't they ask for as much, even if difficult to develop?

[Alexandre_Noireau]

"Pagos is bad because the players don't play it as intended!"

Now.

"If you don't enjoy BLU is because you are not playing it as intended!"

This has to stop. That line of thought is just as terrible feedback, makes just as bad argument, as someone saying that BLU is the worst thing to ever happen since WWI.

Blue Mage is more than divisive, and a very cuestionable design decision for an MMORPG at this point in its life cycle. If this was 8.0, i would understand this class completely but is not, we are close to the beginning of the "mid age" of this game (honestly, being generous, XIV is indeed 8 years old, not 5).

Classes so alien to the "main game instances" with a completely diferent progress system is not exactly what the game needs now, or at least, is what i think. I would have much rather them reworking the combat system (a lil speed up would be cool, and more unique gameplay mechanics with visual unique cues to each class) or the role system (maybe a new party system with a new role or hybrid jobs) to refresh the 5 years past of a combat system that has long served its purpose.

There i would think resources should go, prepare XIV to enter the coming decade, one that might be very well the last of the MMORPG genre as things are going on.

[Fyce]

I mean, you're basically blaming the player for asking for high quality, or to be allowed by the systems of the game to have fun. Shouldn't they ask for as much, even if difficult to develop?

Difficult is understating it. Also, there is a difference between asking for something difficult, and asking for what most would consider a theoretically perfect solution out of subjective notions.
When Reveria said that their limit for "fun" was 10 kills of 7mn fights, that's roughly an hour of play. This can hardly qualify as a "grind" in the context of MMORPGs.

So, in short, they were asking for a grind that fit their lack of patience and tolerance for that kind of content, and labeled it (something that doesn't fit these requirements) as "bad design". That's not asking for "high quality", which is something I don't blame. That's asking for a magical unicorn made of diamonds.

Having high standards is fine, as long as they are realistic.