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  1. #1
    Player
    Jonnycbad's Avatar
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    Apr 2015
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    2,252
    Character
    Seraphus Highwynn
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 100

    Aspects of all primals so far

    Ifrit: Fire
    Titan: Earth
    Garuda: Wind
    Leviathan: Water
    Shiva: Ice
    Ramuh: Lightning

    Odin/Zantetsuken: Unaspected (Dark)
    Moggle Mog: Unaspected (Light)

    Thordan: Unaspected (Light)
    Bahamut: Unaspected

    Ravana: Fire/Earth
    Bismarck: Water/Wind

    Sophia: Lightning/Wind
    Sephirot: Earth/Water
    Zurvan: Fire/Ice

    Shinryu: All

    Lakshmi: Unaspected (Light)
    Susano: Lightning/Water/Earth
    Tsukiyomi: Unaspected (Darkness)
    Alexander: Unaspected (Light)

    Not counting the 4 Lords since they aren't primals who draw aether from crystals/surroundings.
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player
    ObsidianFire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    1,018
    Character
    Kharagal Mierqid
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Bahamut is a Fire primal, only the fire we're talking about is the Stellar Fire found in the sun. And he's been absorbing that aether for oh... 5,000 years... There's a reason all of Bahamut's major attacks share the "Flare" name. Bahamut is kinda like a solar flare that is dragon shaped.

    Sephirot is Earth/Wind, not Earth/Water. Think bio-domes and how plants need to "breathe" air and release things like pollen into the air. Ein Sof, and Ein Sof Ohr look like domes filling up with (poisoned) air. His Spirit/Life Force AoE is also split into green (traditional color of wind) and yellow (traditional color of rock) sections. In addition, his adds are rock (Cochma, Binah) and wind (Storm of Words) based. And yes, none of the Warring Triad Primals are water-aspected.
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    Bright-Flower's Avatar
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    Jul 2018
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    2,828
    Character
    Nyr Ardyne
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    You forgot everyone's favorite primal Enkidu.
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    Jonnycbad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
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    2,252
    Character
    Seraphus Highwynn
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ObsidianFire View Post
    Bahamut is a Fire primal, only the fire we're talking about is the Stellar Fire found in the sun. And he's been absorbing that aether for oh... 5,000 years... There's a reason all of Bahamut's major attacks share the "Flare" name. Bahamut is kinda like a solar flare that is dragon shaped.

    Sephirot is Earth/Wind, not Earth/Water. Think bio-domes and how plants need to "breathe" air and release things like pollen into the air. Ein Sof, and Ein Sof Ohr look like domes filling up with (poisoned) air. His Spirit/Life Force AoE is also split into green (traditional color of wind) and yellow (traditional color of rock) sections. In addition, his adds are rock (Cochma, Binah) and wind (Storm of Words) based. And yes, none of the Warring Triad Primals are water-aspected.
    I thought it was said the 7th calamity had all aspects of elements (compared to previous calamities that were earth,fire,wind,water,ice,lightning).

    As for Sephirot, I assumed Earth/Water because Sophia has Wind/Lightning, and Zurvan is Fire/Ice, therefore all 6 main elements covered by the warring triad and are in balance with eachother.
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player
    Jonnycbad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
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    2,252
    Character
    Seraphus Highwynn
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Bright-Flower View Post
    You forgot everyone's favorite primal Enkidu.
    Enkidu is Fire, as he is born from Greg's prayers while near a large shipment of Fire Crystals.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    ObsidianFire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    1,018
    Character
    Kharagal Mierqid
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnycbad View Post
    I thought it was said the 7th calamity had all aspects of elements (compared to previous calamities that were earth,fire,wind,water,ice,lightning).
    The 7th Calamity is all elements with an Astral charge. But Lore Book 1 says in at least two places that Bahamut is a fire primal. The aspect of Calamities doesn't seem to be linked to what caused the Calamity as it is. The War of the Magi resulted in a Calamity of Water. Xanded flooding the Crystal Tower with Dalamud's energy (really Bahamut's energy) caused a Calamity of Earth. Too much volcanic activity resulted in a Calamity of Lighting.

    As for Sephirot, I assumed Earth/Water because Sophia has Wind/Lightning, and Zurvan is Fire/Ice, therefore all 6 covered by the warring triad and are in balance with eachother.
    The Warring Triad is not in some kind of elemental balance with each other. That's just something the fandom keeps shoehorning onto the Warring Triad and Sephirot is the only primal whose attack names don't have elemental names, so he has the most wiggle room. The longer FFXIV goes on, the less the primals have to do with any particular aspect of aether and the more they have to do with causing ideas to come to life.

    Personally, I think assigning aetheric elements to the eikons downplays what really gives them power. Each primal is based on an idea that has almost nothing to do with aetheric elements and everything to do with they myths, stories and histories that surround that Primal. You'd probably be better off saying that Sephirot is the Lord of Growth then that Sephirot is an earth/wind aspected primal. As it is, most primals have titles anyway, and most of them don't center around elements. Or if they do, it's usually a specific manifestation of that element. And as the game goes on, the titles of eikons become more and more about abstract ideas, then about concrete things.

    Primals and their Titles/concepts

    Ifrit, Lord of the Inferno
    Titan, Lord of Crags
    Garuda, Lady of the Vortex
    Good King Moggle Mog XII*
    Enkidu*
    Leviathan, Lord of the Whorl
    Ramuh, Lord of Levin
    Shiva, Lady of Frost*
    Odin, The Dark Divinity
    Phoneix, Primal of Rebirth
    Bahamut, The Dreadwyrm*

    Ravana, Wrath of the Colony
    Bismark, Lord of the Mists
    King Thordan and the Knights of the Round*
    Sephirot the Fiend, Lord of Growth
    Sophia the Goddess, Lady of Balance
    Zurvan the Demon, Lord of Eternity
    Alexander, Lord of Time

    Susano, Lord of the Revel
    Sri Lakshmi, Lady of Bliss
    Shinryu, Lord of Destruction
    Tsukuyomi, Lady of the Moon
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    Mholito's Avatar
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    Aug 2014
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    1,316
    Character
    Mholi'to Lihzeh
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 90
    Ratzon has a very watery animation, and the areas around Sephirot's arena gets filled up with some kind of liquid during the transition to the last phase. The only windy thing related to Sephirot is the Storm of Words add, but if we count that as a reason to determine his element, why would we not also use the Moon Gana to determine that Ravana is ice?
    (1)

  8. #8
    Player
    ObsidianFire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    1,018
    Character
    Kharagal Mierqid
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    I think I figured that if Sephirot's battle is taking place inside the ARF, all the "water" around his arena was really due to all the Aetherochemical Spills around the ARF. And had nothing to do with Sephirot himself. It's kinda like how Sophia's battle takes place on an Allagan platform and Zurvan's battle starts with him in the Allagan containment facility.

    My mind also went immediately to the idea of a bio-dome with the Ein Sof orbs and bio-domes are all about atmosphere control and stuff. And most plants are all about releasing gases (particularly Nitrogen and Oxygen) and pollen into the air for the most part. Sephirot's color scheme also made me think of it. Green is never used to represent water in the elements; it's always used to represent wind/air. Then there was also Sephirot's breath attack. If I were to say Ratzon represented anything, it would be sap dropping down on character.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    Eloah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,843
    Character
    Toki Tsuchimi
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ObsidianFire View Post
    . Green is never used to represent water in the elements; it's always used to represent wind/air.
    That's not entirely true. Any color could be used to represent any element, as long as there is clarification as to why, within reason. Certain elements just have a color that is the most common to represent them, like red with fire, but blue could represent fire just as easily; in fact blue fire is hotter than red/orange. And green is not usually wind, infact the colors yellow and green usually alternate between wind/air and earth. But blue or white could also represent wind, and pink or brown earth. It all depends on the interpreter.

    Just look at FFXIV for odd examples. Lightning is represented by purple, but the thunder line of spells are yellow and blue in color, with thunder iv finally getting some purple. The so called "water" spells we have in the cure line have a green aura to them. The icon for the spire card is yellow, and the arrow is a white/pale blue. Even other media has done this. Sailor Moon for example had Jupiter use green lightning, and Nepture's representative color was sea-green, not blue. The reason green would be chosen to represent water is if blue is taken by something else, like ice, which could also be represented by white. Most systems like these try not to overlap colors, by too much anyway. Green is used for water since we view green water as the ocean, instead of like a river or lake.

    Not getting too into detail over any of the other primals, Sephirot is Earth/Water. Nothing in his fight alludes to wind, (storm of words doesn't count, as a storm is a mix of wind and water). But a combination of the arena, his attacks, and the fact that he is a tree, all signify water. A lot of his motif is also allusions to the actual sephirot/h, which deals with life and how it functions, its creation, knowledge, themes that are attributed to earth and water. Admittedly, the water aspect is there more in theme than execution, I think only 2 moves appear water based, but to that effect so is the earth aspect.
    (0)
    Last edited by Eloah; 01-15-2019 at 06:26 PM.

  10. #10
    Player
    CaesarCV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    278
    Character
    Faire Eravyn
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 80
    I kind of agree with the points of others here. The Elemental aspect of Primals is really only terribly important for the ARR primals, who actually do tend to follow that dynamic. Many of them don't really seem to follow or care about the elemental aspect at all. I think that part of this is because in 1.0 Primals were assumed to have very different lore attached to them, to the point that they seemed to be actual static entities in the lifestream rather than aetherial constructs. This started to change more in 2.0, especially with the remade Moggle Mog, which was our first implication that primals are based off of legends and aren't necessarily real gods. As time went on, it became increasingly clear that Primals are not some sort of aspected deities, but entities created off of beliefs and even feelings.

    We've seen primals like Shiva and Thordan, who are mythologized versions of historical figures. It's unknown if the original Shiva had any connection to Ice at all, although her famed husband definitely does. We've seen primals like Alexander, who is based off of a Utopian ideal, or primals like Shinryu who is an abstract representation of rage. Some of them have vague (or not so vague) elemental theming, but it's really secondary or even irrelevant to their status as constructs of prayer and belief. Basically, whatever aspect they share honestly doesn't seem to matter much.

    You probably don't even need to use Aether of a particular aspect to summon a specific primal. After all, Ysayle used the (presumably not water aspected) crystals of the Vath to summon Shiva with no problems. You can definitely guess at Elemental Aspects, but frankly they do not appear to matter at all.
    (5)

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