Adjustments for Dismissal- Penalty

[ZenDarkwalkerx]

As of late, I have noticed there has been an increasing amount of toxic players who continue to abuse the rules for Vote Dismiss and deliberately try to ruin the gameplay experience of all players involved in the party.

While in Duty, Raid, Dungeon, etc
We cannot Vote Dismiss a player if we are in combat or items have not been looted.
This means a disruptive and unfavorable player can pull early or open chests to prolong the instance to avoid being kicked, despite creating and maintaining current problems.
Not only that, but when players are Kicked, they are allowed to queue up again instantly.
There is no penalty but being removed from a particular instance.

This means that problematic players can still receive loot for creating problems, then be dismissed and are allowed to queue up again. Potentially giving them the ability to harass other players with this sort of disruptive behaviour.

As of right now, good, honest, and loving players are being penalized for trying to complete a duty. All while the disruptive and problematic players are being rewarded for not only abusing and bullying the team, but abusing the existing rules in game.

I think there are a couple of ways to remedy this:
1. Allow us to Vote Dismiss while we are engaged in combat
2. Allow us to Vote Dismiss while loot is available
3. Give players who were dismissed a penalty, similar leave an active duty.

Allowing these changes would mean that dismissed players face a more serious penalty for creating issues, while not being rewarded for caustic and toxic behaviour.
Punishing the problem and rewarding the hardworking

[Anselmet]

I don't think you realize how that will be abused. Say you're doing omega and in your party there are five friends who qued together. They kick you at the end of the battle so they can all roll on the loot. Or say a dungeon. Only need a duo to be able to kick people for loot that they want.

There is already ways to punish people for disruptive behavior. If a person is being as disruptive as you say, then report them. Honestly, I've played this game for five years and I hardly use premades and yes I do see the occasional trolling jerk, but they are so rare and few. Besides, this would cause way more grieving.

[ZenDarkwalkerx]

I don't think you realize how that will be abused. Say you're doing omega and in your party there are five friends who qued together. They kick you at the end of the battle so they can all roll on the loot. Or say a dungeon. Only need a duo to be able to kick people for loot that they want.

There is already ways to punish people for disruptive behavior. If a person is being as disruptive as you say, then report them. Honestly, I've played this game for five years and I hardly use premades and yes I do see the occasional trolling jerk, but they are so rare and few. Besides, this would cause way more grieving.

Reporting players isn't an instant penalty.
Often I see many troublesome players who continue to be disruptive and nothing is done about it.
A 30 min penalty for being dismissed for harassment exactly the same penalty for leaving a duty early.
People need to be held accountable for their actions.
Also, it is not possible to Vote Dismiss once a completing a duty. Meaning the situation you mentioned, would not be capable of happening.
Duties such as Extreme Trials,Savage 8-man raids, wouldn't be too heavily affected since most of those are pre-formed from party finder.

As for Dungeons, being kicked without context would require a report and investigation to lift the penalty.
Similar to how we are currently being expected to report all negative behaviour from disruptive players.
Since the only easily accessible report option is for RMT, the report options in chat would need to be adjusted.

Just it continues to make little sense that people can't be held accountable for their actions for griefing others players.

[AnimaAnimus]

They made it this way because in FFXI there was a huge problem of ppl getting pugs in a group and then kicking them before loot could drop. Funny enough it was mostly an issue on the jp side. It happened quite often that a jp group would bring English players in and then warp them out before they could claim loot.

And everyone would dismiss ppl for harassment then, even if it was just for kicks to get them a penalty. And the amount of manpower it would take to investigate each and every one kick wouldn't be worth it for a problem that is, frankly, small. If you are seeing a lot of toxic players than idk what is going on on your end, as someone who has been here since original launch, I would say toxicity is a small issue in this game compared to others. And find the ppl usually complaining about overwhelming toxicity to be either incredibly overly sensitive. esp for an online environment, or particularly toxic themselves and are just experiencing others players reactions to their toxicity.

So, no, this is not at all a good idea.

[ZenDarkwalkerx]

They made it this way because in FFXI there was a huge problem of ppl getting pugs in a group and then kicking them before loot could drop. Funny enough it was mostly an issue on the jp side. It happened quite often that a jp group would bring English players in and then warp them out before they could claim loot.

And everyone would dismiss ppl for harassment then, even if it was just for kicks to get them a penalty. And the amount of manpower it would take to investigate each and every one kick wouldn't be worth it for a problem that is, frankly, small. If you are seeing a lot of toxic players than idk what is going on on your end, as someone who has been here since original launch, I would say toxicity is a small issue in this game compared to others. And find the ppl usually complaining about overwhelming toxicity to be either incredibly overly sensitive. esp for an online environment, or particularly toxic themselves and are just experiencing others players reactions to their toxicity.

So, no, this is not at all a good idea.

So far, you are only saying it is a bad idea without providing a remedy to help adjust the current climate.
People being harassed in game is a serious issue. Choosing to be ignorant of that fact is callous.
The simple fact of the matter is that there is no ongoing ramifications for people who continue to exhibit disruptive, toxic, and impolite actions.
This is a game where we are meant to cooperate, but just the opposite happens.

Yes, it is a blanket to a bigger problem as a whole, but something needs to be done on SE's side to prevent people from continuing to be toxic to players trying to enjoy the game.

Blizzard gives players the ability to report and score players interactions, then follows up to ensure that the behaviour doesn't continue.
Riot for League of Legends, provides leaver buster status for those who leave and/or kicked. Then you can respond and say exactly why they were removed.

As of right now, SE is not actively dealing with the the fact that players, certain worlds, etc, continue to exhibit awful actions and inexcusable behaviours.
Being removed or kicked should provide a penalty being disruptive, toxic, and continue to maintain caustic interactions.
A penalty would lock people from continuing to immediately cause more problems for other players.
The ability to kick at any point during the instance would mean people have to monitor their own behaviours better and more accurately.

It's no one's job in any instance to ensure that they have to be plagued with a player who is choosing to not participate.
Nor should honest, easy going players be bothered with trying appease a member of the group who is choosing to deliberately cause and create issues.

Furthermore, I have many friends who have children and teens who play this game.
Why should they be subject to being harassed by some salty person on the other end?
What if you were a young person being harassed and called foul things from some obstinate person, wouldn't you want some protection or justice or anything because you felt you were being wrongly and unjustly targeted?
Wouldn't you want to know that there are some protections in place to ensure and provide a safe and secure space to enjoy your form of entertainment?

[AnimaAnimus]

So far, you are only saying it is a bad idea without providing a remedy to help adjust the current climate.

There isn't a need because its not a giant problem.

As I said, I have been here since the beginning, as has my other half and a large group of friends who migrated from ffxi and we have no idea where all these grand stories of toxicity come from. Sure you run into it on occasion but I can go weeks, pugging and using df daily and never hear an ill word spoken about someone else in the pt. I will stand by my statement that the problem is highly isolated and more likely experienced so frequently by the ppl who are either entirely too sensitive, where even well meant advice comes off as toxic criticism or are so toxic themselves what they are experiencing is a direct consequence of their own actions. This also includes those "you don't pay my sub, I play my own way" types as well as the ones throwing slurs.

And if you let your children play an online game, that's on you. And have you ever entered an online game where the majority are kids? We may as well be holding hands, skipping through fields of daisies singing songs of love and peace in comparison. FFXIV is an mmo with a Teen ESRB, you cant expect the masses to cater to children when children are not the primary or even secondary audience.

I am by no means ignorant to any facts nor am I callous. I am an adult. One who can laugh off the idiots and take a joke as intended. I also realize that when communicating in the written word in something such as a game, that not everything that is said, which comes off as rude, is meant as such simply due to the lack of body language, facial expressions, tone and intent. If you are experiencing an issue, one that you believe SE should spend tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars dealing with, and that problem is primarily one that you experience and not the average player, I don't think its the community.

[Anselmet]

Reporting players isn't an instant penalty.
A 30 min penalty for being dismissed for harassment exactly the same penalty for leaving a duty early.
People need to be held accountable for their actions.
Also, it is not possible to Vote Dismiss once a completing a duty. Meaning the situation you mentioned, would not be capable of happening.

May I remind you what you're own suggestions are?

I think there are a couple of ways to remedy this:
1. Allow us to Vote Dismiss while we are engaged in combat
2. Allow us to Vote Dismiss while loot is available
3. Give players who were dismissed a penalty, similar leave an active duty.

So what I said would indeed happen. I'm sorry, but I would not like to be vote kicked from a party moments before the boss dies because Trollolo Latrollo needs their bolt. And I did not mention trial ex nor savage. I'm talking about everyday content that I can solo heal with the flick of my wrist. And I'm only an above average healer. Hell, my dragoon easily met the dps check in the new dungeon by itself with no lb. So tell me again why I will not kick you for the chance at getting glamor loot?

As for Dungeons, being kicked without context would require a report and investigation to lift the penalty.

That's your grand plan? To add more work for the GMs? Ever heard of subjectivity? What is harassment to you is not to others.

[ZenDarkwalkerx]

As an example.
In World of Warcraft (WoW), players can be kicked during combat and loot phases, and receive a penalty for being kicked for disruptive behaviour.
In League of Legends (LoL), players are still hit with leaver buster status, disallowing them to engage or participate for 20 minutes after leaving early, being kicked, or disconnecting/AFKing, while this does affect some players who are unfairly or unjustly targeted, it also means that people have to participate.

From previous experiences I've had in FFXIV, my brothers and I were playing, doing brayflox longstop.
This particular player was not cooperating and was being more than difficult with us, after trying to communicate to them our concerns.
As a result, we Vote Dismiss, but he instantly queued back in and continued to harass us.
Situations like this shouldn't continue to happen, there needs to be some accountability and penalty for players who abuse the current rules.
Players who are choosing to learn, participate, and engage in content that they enjoy shouldn't be penalized for for Toxic Players.
Toxic players shouldn't be rewarded with the ability to continue to harass other players, still receive loot, and abuse or bully others.

[Raldo]

Is this seriously an issue you come across so often that the current limitations are problematic? I can't even remember that last time I had to deal with someone like you're describing, and I agree with post #2 that your proposed changes wouldn't fix anything.

Encounter a problem player? Report them. End of story. There is no magical fix to be had here.

[Tempest222]

Just because someone was dismissed from a party doesn’t actually mean they were trolling or behaving so terribly as to deserve a punishment. I’m not saying that kicks are never justified, I’m just saying reasons for kicks vary, and sometimes kicks aren’t justified. I don’t agree with punishing people for others choices. If you vote kick then you remove a person from your group and can continue on. There is no need to to continue stomping someone who’s already down. Being kicked is the punishment , anything more is just petty and would be ripe for abuse by unscrupulous jerks. Plus even if a tank or healer who will having a very fast requeue is kicked their time is still wasted since they’ll have to redo what they’ve already done and make their way back to whatever point they were at before.

And honestly, players who seem to just want to join a duty to be as difficult and annoying as possible are incredibly rare.

If someone is actually verbally harassing someone, then you can report it. And I know, reports don’t automatically mean sanctions against the account, but that’s really none of your concerm. If the person is continually acting that way, other people will have reported them also, and eventually those will add up. In the mean time there is no reason anyone should having to worry about repeated verbal abuse as that’s what thr blacklist is for. So no, kids and teens don’t have to worry about being verbally abused since there is a way to not have to see what so,some else is saying.

If someone is just playing badly and you don’t like it then vote kick amd move on. Extra punishment would be too heavy handed and all around unnecessary, and you will probably never even see that person again anyway.