Should they remove positionals at this point?

[Shougun]

Monks, dragoons or samurais doesnt need buffs.

Not really a big buff, 15% movement speed it's just a little treat for doing well that doesn't increase your damage much. It's optional anyways, doesn't need to be there - I just thought a good player might feel special being swift. Ranged players can already hit stuff wherever on the battle ground so w.e lol.

If you're talking about the True North then it's not really a buff to good players, it just makes True North proactive to your mistake and encourages you to do well while you can (because if you did poorly in a row you'd still not get anything extra). I added section on what to tweak just in case it's too strong (or weak, which I doubt a bit). Hopefully to the point of allowing another skill in each melee's repertoire (so they have something more interesting to think about than "omg tank is spinning the boss again...").

Its not removing the system but putting the system more onto you, in a friendly way, such that you think less of the tank or a weird mechanic SE wanted to try with the boss, where if you've done well so far then you're good to go when something goes off for a little bit (think of a different more interesting skill rather).

[Kaonis]

You named what's ALREADY IN THE GAME, something positionals are supposed to work in conjunction with. I am asking for a replacement in lieu of positional removal.

Melee already have the things I mentioned plus their job specific quirks. I fail to see how taking away something like positionals will be anything more then convenience and allow the player to focus on the more skill based systems in place rather then one that can be interrupted because of fight design, and again loss of DPS at no fault of the player.

Also, positionals don't work in conjunction with those aforementioned systems. They are their own thing. Using a CD at a mobs flank or a mobs rear has no bearing on a CD or oGCD. So again, I fail to see how those are "working in conjunction with positionals".

Guess what, genius. The current bosses from ARR through SB are pretty damn stationary too, EX trials, Savage fights, 24 man bosses, most of them anyway.

They are stationary except when they're not. Got it. Doesn't change the fact there are fights where the design of the fight makes positionals impossible to pull off for some amount of time and again lowering the player performance at no fault of the player.

This whole bosses movement kills my DPS and my puppies are way, WAY overblown.

Hyperbole and strawman. There's nothing here that resembles an argument.

Feel free to go enjoy them. God forbid XIV being its own thing for once.

Ignoring other games and trying to develop in a vacuum is, in part, what caused 1.0 to flop in the first place. The game already has a ton of things that make it its own. Removing one bad design decision won't kill that.

Besides, the devs are clearly edging away from positionals. We'll probably see it almost entirely removed if not completely removed come 7.0.

[Nedkel]

Not really a big buff, 15% movement speed it's just a little treat for doing well that doesn't increase your damage much. It's optional anyways, doesn't need to be there - I just thought a good player might feel special being swift. Ranged players can already hit stuff wherever on the battle ground so w.e lol.

If you're talking about the True North then it's not really a buff to good players, it just makes True North proactive to your mistake and encourages you to do well while you can (because if you did poorly in a row you'd still not get anything extra). I added section on what to tweak just in case it's too strong (or weak, which I doubt a bit). Hopefully to the point of allowing another skill in each melee's repertoire (so they have something more interesting to think about than "omg tank is spinning the boss again...").

Its not removing the system but putting the system more onto you, in a friendly way, such that you think less of the tank or a weird mechanic SE wanted to try with the boss, where if you've done well so far then you're good to go when something goes off for a little bit (think of a different more interesting skill rather).

SE would have done it if they wanted to, but they didnt.

Guys, making game easier doesnt mean it will be more fun, the fun is where you are trying to solve problems on your own and beat the level/encounter, beating something that didnt came automaticly and easy has a significant impact on your game. You cant just take away risks or make them irrelevant, playing melee has it, playing tank has it, playing caster and healer has it, its a bad side of the class which you have to deal with it on your own.
Catering to players that does not bother to get better or to try will ruin this game.

Today is a MS boost for bad players, tommorow it will be auto CD use, and in the next year you will not even have to play the game at all, its time to stop. If someone want a class without positionals, there are already classes without them, if they dont like the game simply dont play it.
Easier that, easier this, DRK has been reworked from complex and fun class to play to the unrepairable mess of a class just because SE wanted to make it more accessible to people. And people now are asking for melee dps change, they dont know yet what would have SE need to do to make it come true, it will not be good at all, and i bet my 1 mln gils that if they would remove positionals from these classes and had to rework them, the same people who wanted it will complain about the rework, because deleting mechanic that has huge impact on class will not come without expense of balance hell and changing a lot of stuff around the class.

Removing positionals will force SE to rebalance or even rework the classes completely, and those changes would not be the good stuff, SE has really weak balancing team to do it, they will just destroy the classes for a year or even longer. The less they touch the better.

[Shougun]

SE would have done it if they wanted to, but they didnt.

Guys, making game easier doesnt mean it will be more fun, the fun is where you are trying to solve problems on your own and beat the level/encounter, beating something that didnt came automaticly and easy has a significant impact on your game. You cant just take away risks or make them irrelevant, playing melee has it, playing tank has it, playing caster and healer has it, its a bad side of the class which you have to deal with it on your own.
Catering to players that does not bother to get better or to try will ruin this game.

Today is a MS boost for bad players, tommorow it will be auto CD use, and in the next year you will not even have to play the game at all, its time to stop. If someone want a class without positionals, there are already classes without them, if they dont like the game simply dont play it.
Easier that, easier this, DRK has been reworked from complex and fun class to play to the unrepairable mess of a class just because SE wanted to make it more accessible to people. And people now are asking for melee dps change, they dont know yet what would have SE need to do to make it come true, it will not be good at all, and i bet my 1 mln gils that if they would remove positionals from these classes and had to rework them, the same people who wanted it will complain about the rework, because deleting mechanic that has huge impact on class will not come without expense of balance hell and changing a lot of stuff around the class.

Removing positionals will force SE to rebalance or even rework the classes completely, and those changes would not be the good stuff, SE has really weak balancing team to do it, they will just destroy the classes for a year or even longer. The less they touch the better.

I never argued to give bad players a MS boost, nor did I argue to remove the positional. Also the change was strictly suggested so all positional DD could lose True North and gain a new skill that can do something else more interesting (like new level 70+ skills).

A bad player who ignored their positional would still do less damage. But a player who did well for a while and then missed one due to a mechanic spin or tank spin wouldn't suffer, because they'd have a few "one time True North" buffs stacked up, if they started to miss a bunch in a row then they'd get no positional bonus cause they'd burn through all their buffs.

The mechanic wouldn't remove positional, just remove an ability and make the player rewarded by being good generally while allowing them to get a new skill that does something else. The MS was only an aside thought for good (not bad) players.

[Fyce]

Feel free to go enjoy them. God forbid XIV being its own thing for once.

"Its own thing"... that gets toned down almost every patch where melee DPS get adjustments.
If it was such an objectively good gameplay mechanic, SE wouldn't rebalance it all the time to minimize its impact so much.

[AxlStream]

"Its own thing"... that gets toned down almost every patch where melee DPS get adjustments.
If it was such an objectively good gameplay mechanic, SE wouldn't rebalance it all the time to minimize its impact so much.

They only rebalance it because the average player is so abysmal that unless you literally press the buttons from them, you won't get any decent performance that SE expects you to do.

[Brightamethyst]

They only rebalance it because the average player is so abysmal that unless you literally press the buttons from them, you won't get any decent performance that SE expects you to do.

Why is everyone always so down on "the average player"? You realize that the vast majority of all players are mostly average, right? The super players (and also the really terrible ones) are a pretty small minority. If average players can't do or don't like something, it's probably poorly designed.

[mosaicex]

...

Whatever I guess. I'm done having this discourse.
But mark my words.
If they somehow remove positionals the playerbase will definitely come up with new excuse to justify their poor plays, that much I can guarantee.
Remove positionals today and they will ask for removal of CDs next (and some people already did, actually), slippery slope and all that.
Something will never change, whether it's ARR, HW, or SB.

[Divinewindx]

Please god almighty above, No.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Why is everyone always so down on "the average player"? You realize that the vast majority of all players are mostly average, right? The super players (and also the really terrible ones) are a pretty small minority. If average players can't do or don't like something, it's probably poorly designed.

In this case "average" means the majority, the most common. Not average performance. That's why everyone is always so down on the average player. Reaching lvl 70 and not knowing the basics of your job happens frequently and doesn't need "super" performance for it.

If anything, the poor design is in dungeons being easy enough that those players can be carried to cap without learning how to play decently.