Should they remove positionals at this point?

[Shougun]

Some of the newer savage/extreme raids have mechanics that require a melee dps to miss out on positional potencies and true north has too slow of a cool down to cover all of those instances.

If they are set on keeping positionals, I would like the true north CD reduced to 15s to make it fair for the melee's in content like this. More often than not, my team mates will opt to run as ranged dps on these fights so positional mechanics can be ignored, we just bring NIN along for the TA buff.

This is why I thought they could pre-bake true north into melee DD as a passive give and take mechanic based on performance (and remove true north for another new skill each melee can toy with, level 70+ job specific skill would be neat). For whatever reason some mistook this as an argument to remove positional, which it wasn't.

Before either A. mechanics mess you up or B. other players do, so even if you're doing it all right sometimes it just feels bad to miss them and there wasn't a thing you could really do. Also if they add in a passive pre-baked mechanic then SE can play with the boss movement a bit more and not mess up melee.

Tl;dr of the concept was as you do well you get a few "exceptions" that will automatically be consumed on a failure to meet the positional, meaning it works on the fly but too many failures will cause it all to spiral out as one would expect (there would be a max buff stack, so you can't store 1,000 and then forget how to play lol).

Another concept I thought of was that all positional melee get a dash move by double pressing the movement key/stick (hotkey can be rebound). Based on direction it'll dash you to one of the sides of the boss ring (flank left, flank right, back) such that if you were on the back and double tap right it'll circle you to the right side and for a few seconds lock in that positional. Meaning even if you were moved out of position it'll count as that direction positional. Forward should be either manual still.. or at least a triple tap, just for safety lol (and that's a vary large dash distance for some bosses.. which makes it less realistic looking).

Alternate controls that might be more consistent and easier would be not based on where you are on the circle but just what you press such that double tap right is always the right side (even if you were on the left side), forward is on the butt of the boss, and left the left side (so if the boss is spinning mad you can nail it perfectly given that you're trying to move).

Add a short cooldown, and it'll only work when you're in very close vicinity to the boss's circle. Should work such that if you're free to move it's not too much to move manually if you didn't feel like double tapping, but when things start to get funny you could better lock yourself into position temporarily (via a movement, you still have to play the game lol). I think the first is a bit friendlier to mishaps though, since if at a split turn mechanic the boss changes where you hit even though you felt it was their "right side" then the exception buff would save it from failure.

Also just to let you know True North lasts for 15 seconds, so a 15 second cooldown is uh.. pretty intense .

[wereotter]

Some of the newer savage/extreme raids have mechanics that require a melee dps to miss out on positional potencies and true north has too slow of a cool down to cover all of those instances.

If they are set on keeping positionals, I would like the true north CD reduced to 15s to make it fair for the melee's in content like this. More often than not, my team mates will opt to run as ranged dps on these fights so positional mechanics can be ignored, we just bring NIN along for the TA buff.

I agree. I main monk in savage, and I refuse to play that job in Midgardsormr because of how frustrating it is. We've got a boss in that tier with an absolutely massive hit ring that has multiple instances of "you must stand here for 4+ GCDs" where the damage tanks (not to mention how often you drop Greased Lightning due to jump phases). I realized that because of just how terrible the fight is for that job, we do more damage as a raid if I'm playing a more poorly geared Red Mage than if I'm playing as a monk, and to be honest, most of this entire raid tier has favored ranged and casting classes over melee.

I still don't think the positional ring needs to be removed entirely, Doom Train was an absolute snore to fight as a melee because you could just stand in one place, but more bosses that have lots of requirements for standing in certain spots to do the mechanics need to have the omni-positional ring.

[HarryTipper]

I hope they stay.
I can understand that it can be frustrating on certain fights and on more demanding content like EX/Savage that are heavy on mechanics.

But if they removed them altogether i feel it would make easier fights (NM 8-mans/24-mans/dungeons) incredibly dull.

Fully agree on removing them on overworld mobs though, really no point to keep them there.

[Palinq]

NO. Absolutely Not. I'm also hoping that the expansion, once again, widens the potency gap between hitting a positional and not. I really hope Square doesn't go the path of other MMOS - removing system after system, ability after ability, until the classes become empty husks.

[DuskTS]

Please look forward to it in the expansion.

[Nedkel]

You could play other class if you dont like it.

Removing it will make these classes more boring to play as right now you have to do a lot of moving to make it working, and its not like they are underperforming in any way because of it, hell dragoon and monks are doing massive damage when they get to the back of the enemy.
Those classes are absolutely fine and their DPS is good, especially samurai is top 3 best dpsing class in the game according to fflogs.

Stop asking to make this game easier to play because you cant adjust to it or dont like it, you are asking to redo the class because you find it hard to execute mechanics and position yourself well in just one part of the content you play, thats absurd, how do you know the raids will always be like this and not different or easier in the future? Adjusting class to the content that will go away as a irrelevant, thats a recipe for a bad design right there.
Do you want this game to die off like WoW is now? They also deleted a lot of exclusive stuff from each class, and look how it hurt the game.
Following this logic I could also ask for enmity system being completely removed, because its just a struggle for me playing a tank, so why not? Whye mobs dont just focus on me when im standing still watching anime on the second window? gg

[Deceptus]

Basically:

Does increased uptime and optimal GCD mistake minimization do more dps than the potency loss of missing a positional.

If yes, than positional should be removed. How many threads have been started begging tanks to not move mobs?

[Nedkel]

Basically:

Does increased uptime and optimal GCD mistake minimization do more dps than the potency loss of missing a positional.

If yes, than positional should be removed. How many threads have been started begging tanks to not move mobs?

Does dragoon, monk or samurai underperfoming due to the positionals in comparison to other dps?
Not really.
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...044&dataset=80

Asking for a mechanic removal just because you guys want higher number is absurd, what does make you think that SE removing it will give you the potency bonuses you get right now from positionals? Rotfl no, they will nerf you down in order to balance stuff out, they wont give you that potency number for attacks from all directions.
There is no need to change it, classes you guys mention are completely fine with it and balanced.
If you want to have big number play a summoner, there is nothing that chains you to play one class.

The most popular job right now from what I’ve seen is Bard, followed closed by Red Mage. I think it’s telling that the most popular DPS jobs are the ones that have no positional requirements whatsoever and simple, easy rotations (Bard technically doesn’t even have a standard rotation).

I think that if melee didn’t have positional, the gap between ranged and melee would become smaller.

https://ffxivcensus.com/2018-12/

All classes are similarly popular.

That is factual wrong though. Melee DPS have uptime to consider (trying to minimize GCD loss when having to move/get away for AoEs or mechanics), oGCD weaving so as to not clip GCDs, planning out CD usage to line up with your rotation/fight mechanics/raid buffs to maximize DPS.

There is a ton of far more interesting ways for a DPS to squeeze out their DPS. Positionals are just one way that doesn't mesh well with most of the fight designs and depending on the fight you can miss out on the positional damage at no fault of your own.

Yes and there are already classes that does it and doesnt have positionals, go try them out and leave the melee dps for those who like it that way.

[Havenchild]

From my experience playing MNK (since ARR) and SAM, I think outright removing positionals would make the melee classes all kinda flat unless something changed about each class to make them more unique. Positionals were also tied to the reasoning for giving Melee DPS higher potency due to both the angle a mob had to be hit AND the increased danger of being melee.

A quick skill adjustment on True North for longer duration and less recast time is all thats really needed to not invalidate but smooth out the experience for melee and thats if we even really needed an adjustment at all.

[Shougun]

Wonder if they could get rid of true north by giving all positional jobs a passive mechanic that is a buff that increases by one for each successful positional combo chain of 2 or more (positional that is merely one button doesn't count), up to 5 buff stack (no timer), each missed positional ability consumes one buff and makes it successful. Vaguely a more friendly true north, less customization but does give players another button for something else.

Could mess around with numbers if it's too strong or weak - like the cost to earn, cost to spend (like instead of one buff consumed it's X), max stack, or even have a passive "1 buff will return every 2 minutes if no stack exists" sort of thing as a soft safety net (start fights with a small failsafe).

As a side bonus for those who keep the stack high all the time (not missing positional) give them like 3% movement speed per stack lol (helping melee run out of circles and back into enemies, 5 stacks of 3% is 15% boost in combat).