Should they remove positionals at this point?

[Burningskull]

The reward is more damage though? For crying out loud they just buffed the base potency of a load of monk skills to close the gap, making it even easier to do competitive levels of damage.

If they are going to keep buffing non positionals to the point they don't matter then why have them at that point. If they don't remove positionals I think the Position should be shown on the targeting ring around the enemy. They could also make it more apparent when you do a positional such as bigger numbers or different colored numbers or something. The only time I really know when I do a positional on SAM is if I get 10 Kenki or 5. Granted I mostly only have a hard time with positionals when the boss is spinning like a ballerina either due to the tank or just the boss design.

[Brightamethyst]

The reward is more damage though?

Except that it's not. It's not a bonus if it's expected and planned around. As the game works right now, hitting positionals doesn't give you extra damage, missing them gives you reduced damage. That's the difference.

[Shougun]

Without some other sort of mechanic to fill the void.. I don't think so, although in that same vein of logic I don't think they need to use them for melee either if for whatever reason they wanted to make a melee that doesn't (just give it something engaging).

By that I don't mean it needs to be some new sort of calculus lol, just that some jobs would probably feel a bit less flavorful if removed and nothing put back (at least for those who use the positionals, some people don't and wouldn't feel a difference).

Except that it's not. It's not a bonus if it's expected and planned around. As the game works right now, hitting positionals doesn't give you extra damage, missing them gives you reduced damage. That's the difference.

How would you make it a reward?

[Jijifli]

Except that it's not. It's not a bonus if it's expected and planned around. As the game works right now, hitting positionals doesn't give you extra damage, missing them gives you reduced damage. That's the difference.

It's like saying there's no reward for keeping your GCD going, but there's a punishment for pausing.

It's the same example actually. Waiting an extra second in your gcd makes you do less dps, but it's planned around you keeping the gcd going.

So do you want the game to play itself to fix that?

[Gralna]

Except that it's not. It's not a bonus if it's expected and planned around. As the game works right now, hitting positionals doesn't give you extra damage, missing them gives you reduced damage. That's the difference.

That's a non-argument though, same as saying a glass is half empty or half full, both are right and wrong at the same time. From tooltip on skills though landing positional does give a bonus to dmg, however as a playerbase you could look at it as a potency penalty for not hitting it, It's an argument that can't be argued.

[Arrius]

I think the biggest issue with positionals is a design philosophy one. The current system is designed to punish you for screwing up but there are no rewards for doing a good job. That's not fun for most people.

Isn't it reward enough that you do more damage?

[Khalithar]

I'd be very happy if they removed positionals, it adds a bunch of needless busywork to DPSing as a melee. I'd rather focus on mechanics than having to run to this side for that attack and then that side for this attack, etc.

[Schan]

I'd be very happy if they removed positionals, it adds a bunch of needless busywork to DPSing as a melee. I'd rather focus on mechanics than having to run to this side for that attack and then that side for this attack, etc.

I'm sorry but if that is what you enjoy while playing DPS I would advise you to play ranged physical dps instead. Arguably you get targetted by more mechanics as well so from the tiny insight this post gives me, it seems you should be right at home with ranged physical dps.

Now i'll admit i skimmed over this thread. I personally find positionals both fun and frustrating. The frustration comes mostly from how lately bosses just spin around like crazy; they're massive or they decided to create a insta death zone in said areas you need to land your positional. I guess they're not planning to change that considering how they're buffing damage to skills when not landing positionals and reducing True North's cooldown.

now for the fun part. it makes melees have a certain flow to them and I enjoy that in the classes. I personally enjoy having to pay attention to mechanics while figuring out how to squeeze that sneaky positional. For some people that is rewarding.

IMO they should stay. I do agree however that we need better visibility regarding landing or missing our positionals.

[Khalithar]

I'm sorry but if that is what you enjoy while playing DPS I would advise you to play ranged physical dps instead. Arguably you get targetted by more mechanics as well so from the tiny insight this post gives me, it seems you should be right at home with ranged physical dps.

I almost exclusively play tank. Positionals don't matter to me *personally* but when I'm having to move a boss (I raid savage the bosses are movement heavy) or when the party has to move to stay alive, I see the melee in my raid and in various group content unable to land their positionals while we're doing what we need to as a requirement for staying alive.

You say you like positionals and I do not, but since you wanted me to elaborate more let me tell you what *I* see when it comes to positionals which you sort of touched on yourself but I'll take it a step further.

The frustration comes mostly from how lately bosses just spin around like crazy; they're massive or they decided to create a insta death zone in said areas you need to land your positional.

What I see when it comes to the combination of positionals and mechanics is the melee DPS jobs (sam, mnk, drg, nin) being penalized and missing out on dps through absolutely no fault of their own. Now granted they do when they have to run outside of a hitbox to survive a mechanic but when melee are in melee range doing mechanics correctly, there is no reason why they should suffer a dps loss/penalty simply because some designer made some arbitrary inane requirement where you have to be in just the right spot for full damage because it adds "depth." You may like it, but I consider it utterly asinine. A melee in melee range that is able to stay in melee range and does their rotation correctly while doing movement heavy mechanics correctly, should never receive a nonsensical dps penalty because they weren't standing in the "correct" place, true north notwithstanding.

Edit: Let me just add though, that based on the design decisions we've seen so far, I have a feeling that positionals are on the way out or may be reduced to fewer attacks with that sort of necessity.

[m3eansean]

Some of the newer savage/extreme raids have mechanics that require a melee dps to miss out on positional potencies and true north has too slow of a cool down to cover all of those instances.

If they are set on keeping positionals, I would like the true north CD reduced to 15s to make it fair for the melee's in content like this. More often than not, my team mates will opt to run as ranged dps on these fights so positional mechanics can be ignored, we just bring NIN along for the TA buff.