Gath ponders on "Master" crafting.

[darkstarpoet1]

The game as it was originally promoted was rejected and is being redesigned by a team with their own creative vision. Everything we liked about 1.0 won't make it to 2.0 and that's just the way of it. The system in question was also designed to use physical levels and common stat distribution amongst all the classes and disciplines. They also had surplus and fatigue and now all of that is gone and in some cases was replaced by new systems that do similar things in a different way.

the point is that you cannot use xi had something as an excuse. xi had less that 1/20th(or 5% whichever you choose) of the player base that wow has so should we remove everything that is anything like xi and make a wow clone?

xi had something, yes, that is true. xi also advertised having them. i'm not saying that it was right or wrong to have it in xi. what i am saying is that this game was meant to be different from xi. i actually purchased this game because i pure hated xi.

Specialization doesn't mean you can't level all crafts to cap. Its more like making a career choice once you have developed basic job skills.

as far as you stating that people couldn't raise levels above 50 on their crafts specialization that is exactly what the original op is about.

Say you have someone with every craft at 50 and they are pushed to choose ONE craft to take beyond 50, but once they hit 51 they cannot go back and cannot take any of the other crafts past 50. However, when they choose the craft to go beyond 50 it changes into a Master Craft...like CUL would change into Sous Chef or Master Chef.

this is taken directly from the original op. it directly states not taking more than 1 craft above 50. this is what i have been arguing against. i understand some people have stated the making either weapons or armor once you branch off, but the thread itself is about only leveling one class past cap.

[Aniforani]

Darkstarpoet1 summed up my beliefs on where most of the games economic troubles lie. Sadly there is not much reason to maintain proper level equipment, let alone the drive to strive for top end gear for most of the game. It is so fast to reach cap that we are all left shoulder to shoulder looking down the same narrow corridor of content.
While specialization is a fine way to help our characters regain some uniqueness it will not alleviate the problems brought on the economy by the speed of our leveling system.
The process of leveling to gain access to later content is often referred to as a grindfest, but should it still be labeled as such if the time spent exping was as interesting and fun as the content you were trying to reach? I've gone on roadtrips where I had more fun in the car with friends than when I got to our destination. My hopes are that with v2.0 SE adjusts even the mundane combat that leveling parties experience to have the same fun factor as endgame content.

[JTSpender]

I absolutely hate this idea. Hated it in FFXI, and will hate it even more here now that the various skills are "classes". Assuming there actually is a problem to be solved here (and I'm not sure there actually is), I'm sure there are better ways to solve it.

[Mireille]

the point is that you cannot use xi had something as an excuse. xi had less that 1/20th(or 5% whichever you choose) of the player base that wow has so should we remove everything that is anything like xi and make a wow clone?

Never played WoW, so I wouldn't even imply that XIV should be a WoW clone.

xi had something, yes, that is true. xi also advertised having them. i'm not saying that it was right or wrong to have it in xi. what i am saying is that this game was meant to be different from xi. i actually purchased this game because i pure hated xi.

To my recolection this game started out intending to be XI-2 with everything that didn't work in XI fixed. Once they realized how much work it would be they decided 'lets make an entirely new game.' A lot of what I saw in this game at launch was clearly intended as an improvement over the XI model. My point is that that original vision for 1.0 XIV has been superseded. If they said this game will have feature X in September of 2010 there is no guarantee that 2.0 will have feature X when it launches in October of 2012 unless the devs have since said that 2.0 will in fact contain feature X. I'm sorry if I misunderstood your intention in the post I quoted, but it sounded like you were saying if they advertised it in the 1.0 launch it has to be in the 2.0 launch.

this is taken directly from the original op. it directly states not taking more than 1 craft above 50. this is what i have been arguing against. i understand some people have stated the making either weapons or armor once you branch off, but the thread itself is about only leveling one class past cap.

But not every response in favor has 100% agreed with the OP, and if I am not mistaken even the OP has said he is ok with other forms of specialization than a cap. In point of fact I myself said I would prefer that if they were to impose a restriction I wouldn't want it to be 1 craft to final cap, and later indicated that I preferred what The Vedis put forth as a concept than what the OP put forward. Not everyone will want either idea. I do think crafting jobs will be too vanilla without some form of specialization, and in the long run if everyone can make everything, only gathering/farming will make any gil. That's one FFXI facet that I don't want to see haunting this game. Farm 8 hours a day for 5 years to upgrade my house, no thanks!

[Niqote]

Hmm, I would like to specialize in more then 1 craft however, perhaps 2 might be better?
Even then there could be branches of the specialization for example GSM could have a gem cutting specialty allowing them to cut stones in various shapes and this would alter the final crafted item in question (cosmetically as well).

eg. Round brilliant cut Ruby + silver nugget = RBC Ruby earring
Emerald cut Ruby + silver nugget = Emerald cut Ruby earring

Or in the case of food a master chef could craft with an extra ingredient to make a spiced apple pie rather then apple pie, consumable level and stat bonus would be higher.

[Riaayo]

This is a bit of a difficult topic. If we're allowed to level all of our battle and magic classes to cap, why, theoretically, can we not level all of our crafts to cap if the crafting portion of the game is supposed to be on par with the battle classes so to speak.

I completely understand the problem of every player potentially being able to craft every item, and think it may very well need to be addressed. I don't think limiting the level progression of crafts is the right avenue, though. The idea of "specialization" where you would pick one of your crafts and gain some sort of add-on abilities to make it surpass your others might be nice.

I also think, though, that re-working crafting to have recipes that are not automatically known on level up and instead must be learned from npcs, quests, or even boss or dungeon drops can help separate crafters from one another. Not every 50 Alchemist would be a carbon copy of one another at this point, and would require more in-depth dedication to one's craft.

[TheRac25]

restricting crafting like in xi is just an se money grab so people have to make crafting mules
it has nothing to do with enhancing the gameplay

[Coglin]

Sorry, but any post attepting to convince me that it is in my or the communities benefit to limit my access to max level of any class, be it DoL, DoH, DoM, DoW, will fall on deaf ears. It appears to me that this idea is suggesed in the interest of utilizing ideas from other games of a different dynamics players enjoyed, and try to force it into the dynamics of FFXIV. As stated before, the advertised alure of this game is flexability of the players options. The maxing out of any class or job of any kind, should only be limited by my effort I invest in that class. Not because some one else wants to push an idea onto me from another game, of another dynamic, that they "believe" will benefit me or the community.

This idea, although having good intentions, is yet another example of players trying to take the square pegs from other games and attempt to pound them into FFXIV's round holes.

[Gath]

Sorry, but any post attepting to convince me that it is in my or the communities benefit to limit my access to max level of any class, be it DoL, DoH, DoM, DoW, will fall on deaf ears. It appears to me that this idea is suggesed in the interest of utilizing ideas from other games of a different dynamics players enjoyed, and try to force it into the dynamics of FFXIV. As stated before, the advertised alure of this game is flexability of the players options. The maxing out of any class or job of any kind, should only be limited by my effort I invest in that class. Not because some one else wants to push an idea onto me from another game, of another dynamic, that they "believe" will benefit me or the community.

This idea, although having good intentions, is yet another example of players trying to take the square pegs from other games and attempt to pound them into FFXIV's round holes.

Then help us round those corners off so it fits in the holes.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

[AngryNixon]

Gath your OP is directly opposed to the eloquent dominant belief that "I am allowed to hold multiple jobs/classes and therefore I should and must level everything to cap because I use everything all the time, there is no alternative." Unfortunately, because of this I foresee "problem of great justice!~", or as it is known in academic circles "butt-hurt" from many in the community about going down this road.

Personally, I think it's a great and necessary idea almost exactly as you've construed it. The subtle differences/modifications are unimportant and SE's job to figure out.