Thread: Revelations from Patch 4.5

Originally Posted by Kallera

Even more Varis!!!

This isn't taking advantage of the ascians, though. he has no plan!


No way to unify the newformed post joined masses into the force he wants once the rejoining is completed.
No way to ensure any of the proposed parties survive the calamities involved, including himself.
The plan is going with the goals of the ascians but doesn't explain how any of it will better the situation.
Ascians that the proposed know and are opposed to.


He has no plan, and yet wanted to convince them with it? Why?

Sorry to bring up an older post, but I feel that this kind of deserves a response.

I want to say first of all, we have no idea what sorts of plans he's managed to cook up, and that he might have answers to some of these questions that we don't know yet. It's not like he would reveal all of the elements before his plan if the Alliance Leaders did not even agree with the basic premise after all. He's also been looking into all sorts of things while we (as in the audience) were not looking, like Cloning. He assigned his most loyal general and legion to go investigate Azys Lla and gather their technology. We thwarted that sure, but it's important to mention.

As for him not being able to survive the Calamities, there are various explanations to that. First off, he was attempting to learn cloning and other technologies, maybe he could have a way to pull it off, or at least thinks he can. We also know that a Calamity doesn't have to be a world extinction event, at least judging by Bahamut which didn't affect much of Ilsabard, Othard, or even Ala Migho. This is an empire that barely bat an eye when an entire city (Bozja) was destroyed. They even try to destroy entire cities (Rabanastre, Doman Enclave) or continents (Aldernard) on purpose. That's just collateral damage. There are Garleans like the Populares who retain their humanity and are horrified by such things, but that doesn't apply quite so much to the leadership looking at the world in terms of numbers and long term plans.They have the 'greater good' to consider after all. Varis could be well and fine with letting many die for the 'greater good', and seemed surprised that the Eorzean Alliance didn't understand it.

As for unifying and controlling the reformed humanity, he talked about how this supposed race would be free of racial and cultural boundaries. They would be, in his mind at least, already as unified as they ever could be. The idea that if everyone were the same things would be perfect is classic logic for Fascists fictional and historical, and this kind of lines up with that. Granted, this might be an act of complete arrogance, especially if he thinks that he will be in charge.

There's also the possibility that he's gone a little...batty. The revelation of his entire Empire, indeed his entire life, having been a lie could easily shake him to his core and change his assumptions. He fought and bled and killed just to find out he was nothing more than a puppet leading a false crusade. He might be desperate and trying to find some way to turn the Ascian's tools against them, to complete the great work on his own terms and cast away the 'gods' that rule over humanity. There's also the possibility that he's just been misled, that he's tragically playing into their plans while attempting to subvert them.

Still haven't finished Ivalice or Four Lords, but I wanted to talk about MSQ, Varis in particular...

And of Varis, the parley in particular, of course. Interestingly, I'm on board with Theodric on this one: I think Varis is pulling a con of his own, and that his hilariously over-the-top, megalomaniacal "JOIN ME, and we'll reunite the races!" ambition is a load of hooey. I believe that there were several goals behind his rant. First, he spells out plainly that Ascians are manipulating the Garleans, and that they even founded the empire - stuff known to us, the viewer, but only just now revealed to the Alliance. Secondly, he makes it crystal clear that the goal of the Garleans is to bring about Calamities, and cause the Rejoining to occur. Thirdly, that he is fully backing this plan, because he believes he can use it against the Ascians, and that there is no chance of swaying him.

The result is that the Alliance now has a TON of useful knowledge about the Garleans that they did not have before, and are wholly committed to resisting the Garlean campaign (and therefore, the Ascians' goals) at any cost. Meanwhile, Varis remains in charge of Garlemald, and therefore can work to sabotage the effort in subtle ways. He cannot openly ally with the Alliance, because if he tries he will simply be eliminated by the Ascians, either by directly taking control of his body or arranging his death so that Zenos can assume the throne. The Ascians need to believe that he is working toward their purpose (it wouldn't bother them that Varis believes he can twist their plan to his own ends; in their minds, he wouldn't be the first fool to believe he could manipulate the manipulators!).

The entire farce about "unifying the races" I think he made up from whole cloth to provide a believably fanatical goal he could convince the Alliance he was gunning for. Up to this point, we've been informed that the Rejoining would result in the deaths of all, and it's unlikely that we're misinformed in that regard, or that Varis himself is not aware. Even if there WERE precursor single-race humans, they'd be randomly born from the Lifestream - there'd be no Garlemald, and certainly no Varis to lead them. Varis is a smart guy, and he knew that the Alliance would totally buy into his megalomania. That's my theory, at any rate. Time will tell if it holds true, or if Varis really DOES believe the lunacy he was spouting.

Elsewhere in the MSQ... I felt like some of Solus's spouting off about Ascian mechanics seemed almost like it was speaking directly to loremongers in the forums. XD Yes, that's actually Solus as a young man. Yes, Ascians can change the shape of their host. His mutterings about Black Rose are interesting and unsettling; clearly something is going to come of it.

I wonder if the red and blue power rangers we fought at the end of Ghimlyt Dark are the very same two individuals who appeared in Varis's throne room? I'd assumed the throne guards were men, but their clothing could certainly be concealing their gender. It's also possible that the power rangers were OTHER members of the Imperial Guard, and that there's lots of red and blue folks here and there - but I'm personally hoping that the folks in Ghimlyt are the very same folks we saw in the throne room, and I had a Samus pulled on me. Whatever their gender, I kind of wish that their names had incorporated "Zorn" and "Dorn" in some way, I must admit!

I wasn't wholly satisfied with the Warrior of Light's dialog options during the confrontation with Gaius. It's pretty clear that he's functionally an ally right now, and I've never really regarded him as a someone the WoL would have any kind of personal grudge against. His philosophy meant that he had to be stopped, but it wasn't as though he personally killed the WoL's mom, or anything like that. Perhaps he should be tried and punished for his role in Garlean expansion, but that wasn't really the vibe I got from the dialog choices. The revelation of the existence of another Overlord, Emet-Selch, was interesting, but I'll be very surprised if it's not Solus.

And now, the twins are both out. I'll admit that I was hoping this patch was going to reveal more about what has happened to their souls, but it did confirm that the souls have apparently been taken "elsewhere", which I've been conjecturing from the start. I'm also starting to wonder whether we're all wrong about the next expansion taking us to Garlemald... Perhaps, instead, it will be taking us to wherever the souls are? And we'll be given the ability to freely travel back and forth (so folks can still do stuff like housing, marketboards, sidequests and so on). Or maybe it will be another half'n'half expansion, like this one was, taking place partly in Garlemald and partly in Other Place.

Welp, with all this setup, it's gonna be a rough couple months to wait!

MSQ

Summary of the MSQ: Which of these two major Garlean players do you want to go into Teeth-Clenched Teamwork with?

Option A: Former legatus who tried and partially succeed at tanking over Eorzea only to find out he got manipulated by the Ascians when they used his superweapon to break part of the world which resulted in a lot of the people who followed him getting killed. He's now on a revenge quest to personally ensure the Ascians don't do that again to anyone else.

Option B: Current emperor who is being manipulated by the Ascians and is trying to use all that to his advantage so that a combined world has a chance to decided what its own fate should be. To bad that involves killing billions of people and remaking the world as we know it, but hey, at least mankind is free of the gods finally.

This entire MSQ felt like it was setting up Gaius and Varis as representing the two different directions Garlemald can go. And one of them has a lot saner goals then the other one does.

Gaius

Not surprised at all to be honest. Gaius never did like it when people died for no good reason. For someone who does care about what ends he is working towards, he cares a lot about the means he uses to bring those ends about.

What is interesting is that Gaius says he doesn't yet know if it's really the Emperor or the Ascians who are running Garlemlad currently. I would not be surprised to see his motives for hunting the Ascians down change once he finds out what Varis' goals are and that functionally, there's not a difference between their goals. As Nanamo put it, "Such a man is not fit to govern" and we all know what Gaius' opinions about those kinds of people are.

Probably the most interesting line he says is the "your deeds in Hydaelyn's name have upset the balance" line. This is probably the first hint we have in 4.5 about why the Warrior of Light would become the Warrior of Darkness. It also raises a bunch of questions. Do the deeds upset the balance if they aren't done in Hydaelyn's name? What if they're in someone else's?

Varis

As amusing as the parley scenes is, I don't think that's really the important scene about Varis. The scenes with him and Solus in the plant reveals a lot more about him then I excepted. Mainly that it seems what he is more annoyed with isn't the Ascians goals of a Calamity, but how those goals harm Garlemald. He wants Garlemald to succeed and does not care who dies in the process so long as is isn't Garlemald.

I'd also say Varis has his own particular brand of crazy. Cloning Solus before even knowing Solus was an Ascian. Not having a problem using Black Rose. Doing whatever he did to Zenos. I'd say Varis is as crazy as Zenos is, it's just that Varis' brand of crazy is a lot easier to hide in most cases then Zenos' is. From the sound of it, Varis was a full on "ends justify the means" kind of person long before he found out about the Ascians.

Solus also gives us the first hint of Light being an enemy force against us. From the sound of it, the Flood of Light on the 1st Shard is doing something to the Source's aether, it just wasn't immediate. And Solus is going to take advantage of it. Thinking about it, the "expunging all life" line is a really good description of the effects of Black Rose. Only Black Rose isn't "light". Solus seems to want to make Black Rose "light" in some way though, so... yeah... If it turns out that there isn't a Flood of Light going on anywhere we had to fix, but that line is really about oh... a Light-aspected Black Rose being the agent used to cause the next Umbral Calamtiy... I wouldn't be surprised. What does seem to be clear is that the light-related problem is going to be because of Ascians yet again and not the Warrior of Light doing their job too well.

As far as the parlay goes... I don't think Varis is faking anything because of how the scene with him and Solus went. Solus seems cofident that Varis will do what he wants him to. And Varis has always been arrogant ever since we first ran into him. That said, Varis gets a A for short-term negotiations and an F for long-term ones. As good as he was at talking about recent Eorzean history, he forgot the defining moment of the current era, the 7th Umbral Calamtiy. Eorzea got hit hardest by that. And if Varis knew Eorzea's history as well has it seems he does, he'd know Eorzea gets hit hardest by all the Calamities we know about. Trying to sell the idea of six more calamities to Eorzea is... laughable honestly. They know better then anyone what a calamtiy actually means. Varis basically gave away that he doesn't care about anything outside of Garlemald to them.

Probably the biggest take away from the parlay is that Varis doesn't think humanity as it currently is can stand up to the Ascians. And he all but says that in front of someone who has killed two of them. The Warrior of Light and the Alliance know that humanity is strong enough to take the Ascians on. They don't need to do anything crazy like combine all the shards to stop the Ascians from meddling in human affairs. The icing on the cake is that the Warrior of Light just came from talking to someone else who has been taking on the Ascians and is a Garlean themselves.

One of the really concerning things about what he says is the line about creating an army that would battle the servants of Darkness and Light. The servants of Darkness are probably the Ascians, but the Servants of Light? I'm pretty sure that's us, as people who work for Hydaelyn. I'm kinda wondering if Varis is thinking of going after us next once the Ascian threat has been dealt with. In his mind anyway.

I do like the Alliance all agreeing to stand against Varis. So much for their differences being divisive...

Ivalice Raid

Nice explanation for Ultima's existence. And it again runs into the whole plane/planet/star overlap in Omega. Also, it makes it sound like Ultima is like Omega and Midgardsormr where it's an alien that got the Hydaleyn before the Allagans got there. Given that there's hardly any historical records from before the Allagans, there's very little chance we'll ever know where exactly Ultima came from. Although I now am wondering what it is about Hydaleyn that attracts aliens to her... Also... Hydalyn imprisoned Ultima... who else does that sound like?

Oh boy... the Zodiac Braves knew not only about Hydaelyn but Ramza was a Warrior of Light. I think it's safe to say that with Ramza and Tenzen both being Warriors of Light in different eras that Warriors of Light pop up whenever Hydaelyn has need of them. Ramza and Co. also follow the Warriors of Darkness's example and go back to the aetherial sea once Ultima is finally defeated.

I do like all the hanging plot threads left over. Here's to hoping that Dalmasca gets a Scholastic type series of Side Quests about it in 5.0!

Things from the trailer that haven't come up yet

The "Lord Hein and Commander Hext have taken their troops to provide support, but we don't know how long they can hold out." line.

Any scene involving Elidibus/Zenos and Elezen/Zenos interacting with the WoL and Co.

Any scene with Varis in the Garlean throne room.

The "Soon, we will throw wide the gate." line by the Voice.

The last scene with the WoL in the circle diagram

All I can say is... next MSQ is probably going to have one dozy of a cliff-hanger since this MSQ didn't...

On the subject of the real Zenos...

Considering how long he's been absent, I really hope he does something significant in the next part of the MSQ instead of going out with a whimper after seemingly deciding to pick a fight with us or Elidibus and getting trounced.

It kind of sounds like fighting Elidibus at all is the thing that's going to be the trigger for the calamity (If I had to guess, it's because the spark of our own light is the catalyst needed to start whatever calamity-inducing reaction Solus is planning to cause with the Black Rose) and it would be pretty ironic if he ended up being the one who gives us a way out of that situation by, say, trying to reclaim his original body after getting "killed" again (Which while unlikely to succeed, might at least give us a chance to escape and avoid playing into Solus' schemes).

Varis-

On the one hand, he clearly shows disdain for the Ascians and their goals. On the other, he's apparently willing to go along with them to create his "perfect race" on the gamble that in so doing they will have the power to kill the Ascians and reins of history in the hands of man blah blah blah.

Either he's playing at some larger game we don't yet grasp and deliberately acting over-the-top evil to fool the Ascians, or he really is the ruthless tyrant he's been portrayed as. Solus comments that he's "playing the part [of]... determined ruler," suggesting that even if he's just acting it's not really fooling the Ascians (and that they are aware of his plans and do not consider his machinations a threat). As such I would posit that he truly believes the madness he tried to sell the Eorzeans; the enemy of your enemy is not always your friend.

EDIT
Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. Either way, the war he brings isn't something to let happen, and the Eorzeans absolutely should not surrender their freedom.

Our imperfections and differences are what define our humanity. To strip them away and create a "perfect race" would leave life... largely devoid of meaning, and turn humans (the races of man) into something else entirely. Never mind the countless, helpless innocent people that would be killed in the pursuit of such so-called "perfection"...

No Ivalice from me tonight, sorry. I still gotta work on my mobage for the day and I got busy making a D&D character sheet...