Thread: Revelations from Patch 4.5

Originally Posted by KageTokage

My thoughts on the voice:

It's been noted that some of what the voice has been saying is unusually similar to the Warp incantation used in FFT to send Ramza to the Necrohol of Mullonde (Against his will to boot)

I believe "Let expanse contract, eon become instant" and their other cryptic words that are hard to interpret may simply be part of some manner of incantation that's being used to temporarily connect its targets to another reality (Hence Alisaie noting that she felt like she was "somewhere else" whenever the voice was speaking) so that their minds can be pulled away (They naturally couldn't bring their whole being since we already know that you can't cross between the shards without relinquishing a physical form).

I'm thinking the only reason we haven't been pulled away yet is because we're still needed to keep things from going awry at the Source and that as soon our little Garlean problem gets sorted out we're going to get yoinked into another reality like everyone else so we can finally get a proper explanation as to what the heck is going on.

As for why they haven't been more clear about what they're trying to tell us, I'd assume that cross-shard communication is just extremely difficult to maintain...which is also the reason why the Scions were spirited away because they're going to be helping to sort out an issue that's much too big to explain in the brief moments they were able to hear the voice.

Response of Ten Characters:

My assumption was that it's the Echo that's made us extremely resistant to the voice. Krile has also not been taken (yet). Although I get the impression each tug is stronger than the last.

Originally Posted by YianKutku

Thanks, that was what I was missing. And I was indeed not doing that, which explains the mechanic.

MSQ additional thoughts:

The more I think about the parley, the more annoyed I am with it. The only good point Varis had was against Merlwyb, and that was only because Merlwyb set it up for him so nicely. When she was going on about Lominsans peacefully settling La Noscea, I was going "NO YOU FOOL YOU'RE WALKING RIGHT INTO HIS TRAP".

Merlwyb should have known better, especially since Y'shtola already called her out on it.

The rest of the Alliance was hamstrung by the writers apparently not knowing how to write a proper negotiation. Even Raubahn's original idea of just using the parley as a stalling tactic didn't work, since Varis controlled the pace of the negotiations. And he only did so because he could essentially handle all the Alliance leaders blindfolded with both hands tied behind his back.

It was the NPC negotiation equivalent of Zenos narratively handing us our behinds in Rhalgr's Reach. He's not doing it through skill or tactics. He's just coded to be that much higher in stats, because the writers say so.

Especially disappointed in Aymeric. Where was the Aymeric who managed to get Hraesvelgr to at least listen to him, even if it was Midgardsormr who actually convinced Hraesvelgr?

This song is just ten words long:

Very much agreed that the Alliance leaders seemed to have gotten hold of the idiot ball in the parley. The only valid point Varis raised was with Merlwyb, and since she's been called out on that twice now by the Scions, her surprise seemed rather off. Varis had no answer to Hien, Lyse, and Raubhan, who all experienced Garlean oppression firsthand. Kan-E-Senna wasn't allowed to give the obvious response to his "You tried to summon the Twelve" remark, namely, "We wouldn't have had to if you guys hadn't dropped the freaking moon on Eorzea."

And then there was Aymeric. Varis' description of the end of the Dragonsong War was so very wrong: the WoL, Estinien, Ysayle, and Alphinaud trekked across the better part of Dravania in order to meet with Hraesvalgr to make peace. When we eventually killed Nidhogg, it was with help from his brood-brother, and the blessing of Big Dragon Daddy himself. That said, I did like Aymeric's response, because it was realistic and it fits nicely with my headcanon that Aym and his BFF the Warrior of Light make a point of not talking about the fact that the WoL killed Aymeric's father. I have no trouble believing that he's still conflicted about that, and having Varis bring it up caught him off-guard.

Originally Posted by Dualblade

On the MSQ

I'm throwing my hat in on Varis not actually being Varis but Solus shape-shifting to him. I'll also say that if Solus is doing things behind Elidibus's back it will eventually be revealed that Elidibus was aware of atleast most of his actions the whole time and has been accounting for them. Unless Lahabrea somehow comes back Elidibus will be our final Ascian boss and so far has shown himself to be the most intelligent.

As for the WoL possibly causing a flood of light in the source? I'm still not feeling it. So far there simply haven't been any actual consequences involving Light, only actions/reactions from dark sources. I'm hoping Part 2 shows actual reason for us to become a WoD because it just seems weird right now, even more so since we already know defeating the Garlean Empire and the Ascians will STILL be a main goal as a WoD.

Still more on the MSQ:

I'm on Team "Varis got bodyjacked by Solus during the break". Before the recess, he sounded and acted like the Varis we encountered in the Sea of Clouds: arrogant and condescending, but also very composed. When he returned, he started chomping on the scenery, throwing his arms wide and smirking and chuckling. His whole affect changed, and he seemed much more like...well, like Solus, the giant ham. Between that and the bit about how "We may not see each other again in this lifetime," I think Solus--or rather, Emet-Selch--wasn't happy with the stalemate, so he decided to take the reins. His goal was to ensure that there's no armistice, and that the conflict continues to escalate.

My question from the beginning was "Why does Varis want to negotiate?" There's really nothing for him to gain: the Empire clearly has the superior military force. Doma and Ala Mhigo aren't going to agree to anything less than the independence they just fought for, and certainly none of the other Alliance nations are interested in giving up territory. Varis has to know that the parley was a delaying tactic by the Alliance. So why propose it? I think the answer is that Solus wanted to know how much information the Alliance had, and then to push them towards continuing the war.

And one more thing about the MSQ:

I really wanted someone to ask Varis to describe this "perfect race". Does he imagine Garleans with the ability to manipulate aether? And do all the other races simply cease to exist, or do we get Fantasia'ed into something else? Or is he thinking more exotic, like Lalafells with horns, or Roegadyn with furry tails? Or does Varis really, really just want to be a bunny boy?

Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

Back on topic... While there are still unanswered questions from this round of MSQ, my big one is:

What exactly have we been doing that's creating an excess of light? Especially considering the world is still in a pretty bad place. Almost everything we do is reactionary in an attempt to restore balance. Primal summoned? We kill it. Ascian causing trouble? We sort it out, etc. What are we doing wrong? Are we saving too many lives, stopping too many wars, giving people too much hope? What exactly is the problem?

From my interpretation:

I'm not entirely sure that we're implicitly doing anything wrong. I mean, wasn't this the case with the Warrior's of Darkness? That they were just doing what they needed to in order to keep their world safe, but in the end, it happened that the balance between light and dark was upset causing their world to still become engulfed by the light.

That said, we did just recently essentially single handedly front 2 pretty massive rebellions which succeeded in limiting the Garlean Empire, which is a fairly substantial source of dark thanks to the Ascians. I'm sure that might have something to do with an impending unbalance of light...

Meanwhile, some of my own questions surrounding some of the MSQ events:

Where did Varis learn about cloning? Like, it's just "Oh yeah, there's just a rando cloning facility full of clones of Solus. No biggie" and I'm just sat here thinking, what? Last I heard about cloning was in the SMN quests, where the Allagans used Saris' research to create a defence system that utilized clones of Saris. But then we smashed it good. Not only that, but this was entirely on Azys Lla, which we did our best at keeping the Imperials out of, aside from the group we encounter during the Warring Triad side quests, which were not particularly focused on scrounging for information about cloning and was more concerned with you know, the potential calamity caused by one of the Warring Triad waking up...

In any event, I assume we're going to get some more focus on this at some point, given that the parley informed the entire alliance that Solus is in fact an Ascian. Meaning that someone's probably going to note the significance of an entire facility filled with clones of the Ascian that founded the Garlean Emprie...

Less of a 4.5 related musing and more of just something I've been thinking about lately:

How exactly are the 13 shards linked? Like, the Warriors of Darkness came to our world (The Source) in order to usher in a calamity of darkness, in order to counteract the calamity of light happening on their world (The First). This then proposes that these 2 worlds are linked in some way, or that 2 worlds can be linked together by some action.

Since, one would think, that if one of the things is that several of the worlds have been engulfed by darkness or light, surely if they were linked in some way, or COULD be linked, then some of the worlds would counterbalance each other? Like a world engulfed by darkness being linked to a world engulfed by light, that would essentially fix them right? By the same premise that the WoD's were trying to cause a flood of darkness in our world to combat their world being flooded by light?

I mean, unless everything happened to be extremely coincidental? So that all the worlds flooded by darkness were linked and all the worlds flooded by light were linked. With our world happening to be linked to the first...

Also, if a flood of light/darkness on a world can influence another world (See: The WoD's motives for causing a flood of darkness on our world), would that not mean that this influence can happen even when there isn't currently a flood happening on both worlds? As in, if our world is linked to the first, which is being flooded by light, would that not as a result increase the light in our world, independent of any actions of people in our world? (Thus meaning that the Ascians are actually incidentally saving our world by working to increase the darkness, counterbalancing the increased light we're receiving from the first and thus then cause our actions as the Warrior of Light to put our world in danger of a flood of light)

Some more MSQ related musings, this time more relevant to 4.4-4.5:

If this is all the case, then I would surmise that a very important thing to do, is to travel to the first and usher in a calamity of darkness there in order to negate the flood of light and thus put it back into equilibrium and remove its affect on our world's equilibrium. With further actions to be taken including then going to the other worlds that have been consumed and ushering in calamities of Darkness/Light as necessary to try and restore an equilibrium within them too.

Which, could quite possibly be what the voice we're hearing and is taking the souls of the Scions is trying to do. Since, we know that Hydaelyn sent Minfillia to guide the WoD's back to the first, it's possible that someone from the first has been able to use Minfillia's trail (Which would lead back to our world, along with the WoD's) in order to reach out to the Scions and bring them to the first so that they can aid in reversing the flood, before our world is destroyed. Perhaps because once the flood has begun, the only way to be able to travel is by doing an Ascian and giving up your mortal body, which may be either impactful for actually being able to influence the world or it might be out of concern that whomever is requesting our aid doesn't want us to die (Not to mention, if the floods do impact other worlds, then a double light flood would be far more difficult to fix...)

One thing that's left me disappointed in the MSQ is

no Fordola. I was hoping her story would be continued. It's possible she'll be in part 2, but I'm starting to wonder if that short story was meant to be the resolution and they don't plan to bring her back again in game.